Streamer only, no DAC

[Rubicon15]

Has anyone compared the Lumin U2 mini to the Bracasti M5? Both are at the same price point. Both have good reviews. However, the M5 does have a better power supply.

[admin]

I haven't. What source/streaming services are you planning to use?

Also, I would take a look at the Bluesound streamers. They seem to be the most popular streamers in audiophile stores these days. They have some very nice streamers at a relatively low price and support a lot of music streaming services. They have a pretty good app, BluOS, and with streamers I have found that the controller app is a very important aspect of the user experience.

[Rubicon15]

I’m currently using Qobuz.

[admin]

I’m currently using Qobuz.

Does the M5 support Qobuz?

[Rubicon15]

Yes, but unlike Lumin, you must use a third party app like Roon. Obviously, an additional expense. With the Lumin U2 mini, you can easily download the Lumin app and it automatically interfaces with Qobuz or Tidal.

[admin]

That's why I originally suggested the Bluesound as it works with just about every major streaming service.

In case of the m5, you are going to be paying more for Roon than the actual music streaming! Not that is necessarily a bad thing if you prefer Roon.

[Rubicon15]

Thank you. I’m not married to Roon. Some people prefer Roon. The Lumin app isn’t perfect but it isn’t terrible. Roon is probably the best interface on the market. Is it worth the additional cost compared to the Luman app, probably not.

[admin]

Here is my take on streamers, and take it for what it's worth,... which granted is not much. I think they are a unique addition to the audiophile world in the sense it is the first time where software is just as important as hardware. This has never really been the case to a large extent in the past. Speakers, amps, preamps, CD players, turntables, etc... may have "software" running parts of the environment but it's usually completely passive and almost invisible to the user. As long as you press the play button on your CD player or the volume up on your preamp remote control and those things are done, the user is satisfied with the product. In the world of streamers, I find this is completely different.

With streamers the software needs constant updates because the source software (streaming services) are constantly changing. The hardware that the controller apps run on are being replaced with new operating systems every few years. This forces the streamer manufacturers to constantly make updates. They also need to design functional UI's for their apps and also make sure they are compatible with the 1,000 different phone/tablets that they run on. This is a massive undertaking. The number one gripe that I see when people are having issues with their streamers is software based. It's almost never hardware issues (ie failing power supplies, dials breaking, etc...).

Now look at the controller software reviews. Lumin's controller software has a 2.8 rating on the google app store. That should raise an eyebrow. Bracasti didn't even tackle the controller app issue. You only have one option there and that's Roon at an additional $150 per year subscription model.

I think the fundamental issue is that it's really hard to program good software apps for these devices and it needs a completely different skill set then traditional high end audio design. Although hardware design is top quality at places like Lumin, Bracasti, dCS, etc... the software development has been a major challenge. I think the two companies that are doing the best at controller app development are BluOS and Wiim. I just think they are putting a lot more resources into software development there,... I would say perhaps even more on the software side than hardware side. Wiim is very low cost hardware so probably not meeting the standards that we are used to, BluOS runs on NAD, Roksan, Cyrus, Peachtree, Dali and Bluesound streamers which I think starts getting into audiophile level hardware. These apps support 20 or so streaming services natively and are pushing meaningful updates on a regular basis.

I'm not trying to be anti Lumin or Bracasti. They make excellent hardware. I'm just pointing out that the controller app is just as important as the hardware and should be taken into consideration when making the purchase of a streamer.

[Rubicon15]

Interesting observations. Based on the information posted on Lumin’s website, their streamers are designed and manufactured to receive software updates as needed. Lumin considers the unit “future ready.” On the other hand, Bricasti doesn’t have the same chip technology or software capabilities to accept updates like the Lumin. With regards to the Lumin app, some people believe the Lumin app provides a better listening experience compared to Roon. I can’t honestly provide any feedback regarding the comparison between the two apps. I’ve never used Roon. I know it has more bells and whistles… Lumin’s future readiness was a major factor when considering the U2 over the M5. However, I know Bricasti designs and manufactures quality components.

[admin]

They all say they are "future ready" but the fact that they have extremely small streaming service compatibility and most likely very small software development teams is a concern. Again, these are not "full proof" as one can easily see by reading the app reviews.

Just to reiterate, I am not indicating in any way that Lumin or Bricasti don't manufacture excellent top notch quality audio equipment. I think they absolutely do. All I am saying is that one should look at the limitations. If you decide you don't want to use Roon any longer, than the Bricasti becomes essentially functionless. You want to change your music service to Apple, now you can't play any audio. Granted, if you are hosting your audio on a private server, these issues become much less important. But many prefer the almost limitless catalog of different streaming music services.

Again, just things to consider. Both Lumin and Bricasti look very appealing if your sources fit into their supported (but limited) ecosystem. Just my 2 cents.

[Wildcat]

Roon is worth the money if, like me, you have thousands of albums ripped or downloaded to a server. Adding Qobuz is the icing on the cake for me, as it opens up an unlimited library of music. Some say that Roon is worthless without a paid streaming service but I strongly disagree with that, as it helps me organize my existing music that I own, and seamlessly adds Qobuz throughout the interface. As all of my attached devices work with Roon (everything from my AirLens streamer to numerous Chromecast Audio pucks and even old phones I take outside to play one of the portable speakers), it provides a common interface for everything. And it's easy enough that I can hand a tablet to a visitor and they can figure it out very quickly.

It's not for everyone, but for those like me who need it, it's become a necessity.

[admin]

Completely agree with Wildcat. If you have a large collection of music that you are hosting yourself I don't think there is a better product on the market than Roon. The fact that it ties in with qobuz (and tidal) is icing on the cake.

10 years ago my digital audio playing was very much based on my own collection. Now it's almost exclusively streaming. I don't know why Roon has not expanded their supported streaming services. Supporting 3 streaming services when other manufacturers are directly supporting 20 is a weakness in my opinion. I really hope they will at some point expand out but I'm not holding my breath. If they did, I would definitely seriously looking into subscribing to Roon.

I don't think there is a "right or wrong" answer. It really depends on the extent of your own music collection, preference for streaming service, etc...

[Wildcat]

I think it's the way Roon accesses the streaming services, based on how it integrates them into the Roon system. Amazon and others won't provide an API for what Roon needs to access their services/data. They would prefer you use their own software, or something like Mconnect or other third party apps that act as a proxy for their software. For me personally, I would like to have Pandora integrated but that won't happen (I have "trained" stations as far back as 15 years ago that I access regularly).

Roon does offer Internet radio, so I have a few stations loaded in and ready. Some of the streams are lossless. Good times!

[Sephiam]

I was focused on the Bricasti, among others. I ended up with a Pro-Ject Stream Box S2 (hidden in my cabinet) running to my C-J hd3 dac and CAV45, source is Qobuz. Very simple and sounds great for background listening. I also have an Aurender N150 streaming to my C-J HVA1, via a Mojo Audio Mystique dac, source is also Qobuz.

In my limited experience with streaming, the app is very important. I sold my Bryston streamer and dac due to the frustrating app. Both the Pro-Ject and Aurender are proving to be trouble free for internet radio and Qobuz hi resolution.

[admin]

Very cool. The nice thing is that Qobuz seems to have great support on these units. Like the old saying, "if it works, don't fix it." I see you have multiple streamers in the same system. Is there a specific reason for that? Most people just utilize one streamer.

[Sephiam]

I'm sorry - two separate systems. I'll post pics in the Gallery when I get a minute.