Another New Member

[garycote]

Folks, Greetings. Have owned my CJ Premier Eleven A for perhaps 20 yrs, much of that time dormant with family, job, etc... Finally getting back to HiFi. Slowly. After reassembling my old pieces, found that much were in need of repair. Including the Prem11, which has 1 broken power tube. Also broken was one of my older speakers, and my Classe DR5 Preamp.

A couple weeks later... New Magnepan 1.7I's, my original Sota Sapphire w/blue point HOMC, Cambridge CD and Sony SACD, MF D-A, and MF Phono stage. Have band-aided the front end with a new Denon AVR whcih provides great switching, streaming function, HEOS for HT, and power for surround speakers. finally, using my spare PS Audio 200Cx for power.

Sounds pretty good so far.

Tonight I will be re-tubing the CJ completely, re-biasing, and then hoping for the best... Will let you know.

Reprinted the Owners Manual as I seem to have lost my original, and then migrated here looking for schematics, in case i need to adjust for the 4-ohm load of the 1.7i's. Will hopefully find the schematics and print out as next action on this forum.

Thanks for having me. Cheers.

[admin]

Welcome to CJO.

Very nice. Nothing like brining an old system back to life. Hopefully a re-tube is all that is needed for Premier 11. It should pair very well with the maggies. I use a pair of 20.1's myself and I am a big fan of the company. The default wiring for the Premier 11 is 4 ohms so unless it was altered, you should be all set. We do have the wiring diagrams for the Premier 11 so you could confirm the resistance settings if you need to (the cover would need to be removed for this).

Let us know how it turns out. Also, please keep in mind that the amp should be under load when turned on,... so just make sure speakers are connected.

[garycote]

Thanks, will do.

[garycote]

Promised an update: Well, success. 8 new tubes, wire it in, turn it on, re-bias, and eureka! The Premier 11 putting out tube sound again after 20 yrs. Awesome.

[admin]

Excellent. Congrats and enjoy the fine tunes!

[Big Dog RJ]

Well done on the re-tube work.

For now the Prem11 should be working well. Keep a close eye on things and check the bias at least once in 5 to 6 months to make sure it's operating up to spec. Of course down the line, certain other parts (caps, resistors) may need replacing as the amplifier ages... but for now things should be ok.

It's certainly quite amazing to see that these beautiful top class tube amplifiers are still going strong, especially after few decades! SS gear just can't do that, would've stopped working long enough.

Goes to show, the true value of fine tube gear, and CJ design is well worth the investment. Just beautiful gear and really well made.
Cheers to CJ!

Enjoy those fine tunes, woof!
RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

It's certainly quite amazing to see that these beautiful top class tube amplifiers are still going strong, especially after few decades! SS gear just can't do that, would've stopped working long enough.

Actually, first quality three to six decade old solid state gear can still perform pretty well today. Krell still supports their old gear. There are guys providing support for vintage McIntosh. Tube gear does not have a monopoly on this. Decent quality individual (discrete) parts can be found in many old components.

If it’s just output devices that need replacing, tubes are easier than SS, but I don’t think it can be effectively argued that tube repairs are cheaper these days.

If you’ve got an old Sansui or similar bottom feeder, light weight hunk o’ junk, it’s not worth fixing. But if it was a high end unit to begin with, and you like vintage stuff, you don’t have to limit yourself to tubes.

[garycote]

[/quote]

Actually, first quality three to six decade old solid state gear can still perform pretty well today. Krell still supports their old gear. There are guys providing support for vintage McIntosh. Tube gear does not have a monopoly on this. Decent quality individual (discrete) parts can be found in many old components.

If it’s just output devices that need replacing, tubes are easier than SS, but I don’t think it can be effectively argued that tube repairs are cheaper these days.

If you’ve got an old Sansui or similar bottom feeder, light weight hunk o’ junk, it’s not worth fixing. But if it was a high end unit to begin with, and you like vintage stuff, you don’t have to limit yourself to tubes.
[/quote]

Certainly hope so. My PS Audio 200 Cx certainly continues to run perfectly. But my Classe DR-5 is not working (one channel inop). Hoping to find a way to investigate costs and practicality of repair. But it will be for a 2nd system even if it gets repaired. For now, Ive got my front end running through a new Denon AVR, with the assistance of a MF D/A, and a MF Phono stage. While I love the convenience of the switching capability, Heos (so I can run wireles surround speakers), Center channel power, and also Hi Res streaming, it certainly now is the weak link from stereo sound perspective. Im investigating capable preams with HT cutout/bypass. We'll see what happens.

Cheers.

[admin]

Certainly hope so. My PS Audio 200 Cx certainly continues to run perfectly. But my Classe DR-5 is not working (one channel inop). Hoping to find a way to investigate costs and practicality of repair. But it will be for a 2nd system even if it gets repaired. For now, Ive got my front end running through a new Denon AVR, with the assistance of a MF D/A, and a MF Phono stage. While I love the convenience of the switching capability, Heos (so I can run wireles surround speakers), Center channel power, and also Hi Res streaming, it certainly now is the weak link from stereo sound perspective. Im investigating capable preams with HT cutout/bypass. We'll see what happens.

Cheers.

Receivers have an amazing amount of technology in them these days. I'm a hometheater buff myself so I can appreciate all the functions. Unfortunately, it rarely does high end 2 channel audio listening justice.

For the Hi Res Steaming content, HEOS is a nice platform but I would probably try to use the Denon as a source. If it has a digital out, all the better.

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes correct, and fair point by AJ.

Also having witnessed first hand, whenever I visit my CJ techie's audio lab, so to speak, there are stacks of SS gear everywhere! Missing parts, missing this and that, some of which the owners have left behind. Mainly, due to parts unavailable. Very well known brands (makes withheld due to respect...) it's a real shame to see such gear. Some of them aren't even that old, I came across three units that were less than 15yrs old and had multiple tranny failures. These are big repairs plus service and no longer covered under warranty, hence they just sit there collecting dust.

On the opposite side of these shelves, (names divulged) sits some true tube classics: VTL, Manley Labs, ARC, Jadis, Quad, McIntosh, Leek, Cary, Carver, Luxman and the odd ball CJ MV series amplifiers. Most of them require simple service and minor fixing, couple leaky caps, diodes & resistors, resetting bias circuits, fixing broken power switches, replacing output terminals and fuses. Once they get going, they sound wonderful! Especially those vintage Quads and Leek amplifiers, really nice relaxing tunes.

I usually end up visiting at this end stage because that's when happy techie tests each of these amplifiers with some fantastic speakers; Apogee's, Joseph Audio, B&W Nautilus and a few stats from Quad and ML. It's a real treat to experience this, however not everyone is invited. Doesn't like too many visits nor too many people poking around, so I usually keep my distance until invited over. Got to give these guys their space, otherwise they get cranky. I can see why...

Anyway, do enjoy those fine tunes!
Cheers, RJ

[admin]

RJ makes a good point of it being often more difficult to find replacement parts for SS gear which tends to be more complicated and have specialized parts. I had a failure of the front Display on my home theater Onkyo receiver a few years ago. As the display board is custom and the unit was about a decade old, there were no replacement parts. Because it's a custom board there is very little you can do for repairs. I got extremely lucky in that there was a common failure of one of the caps on the board as it was a poor design where they should have used a higher voltage capable cap. This was reported by many owners of the unit. I was able to replace that one cap with a new one (and higher voltage rating) and I was able to get it back to work. This is not something you would have been able to tell from a schematic and since custom parts or the board itself was not available I would have been stuck if it wasn't for such a common failure of a single component.

EDIT: It was actually a resistor not a cap that needed replacement.

[AnotherJohnson]

No one should be lulled into a false sense of security about the serviceability of vintage gear. I’ve personally had two CJ pieces returned with issues or with service not performed. Roberto was very upset when Krell was not interested in working on his old gear. Old stuff is always subject to parts availability issues. It is just a fact.

FWIW, I can’t recall a single truly “high end” receiver… these boxes always involved compromises in build in order to cram all the functions into one box. CJ never made one. Neither did ARC. McIntosh did make receivers, and some can still be supported, but they were never top tier builds even when they were new.

Being a vintage audio aficionado is a legitimate hobby. It is fun to keep old stuff alive … when you can. And it can sound perfectly “adequate.” But most of the time there is an eventual end of the road.

The Golden Age of two channel is now. Enjoy it as you see fit.