I took the plunge and upgraded big time!

[admin]

Mmm... that very speaker was on show at our last Melb hifi. The turn out was great but the show demos overall were quite disappointing. One of those disappointments were the PS Audio speakers, with a price tag close to 50grand AUD, it was no where close to any of the panel designs we own. In that case, you're far better off with the MG20.7's!
Heck, even the MG3.7i's are a far better option in every aspect!

Yes! Nice one mate. Those comparisons will be at a much higher level than PS Audio speakers. Not that they're bad or anything, it's just something was off... can't quite explain it, and for 50grand price tag, hell no! Perhaps it was the amps (BHK monoblocks 300's) or the source gear, I don't know.

I'm actually disappointed to hear this. Although I'm a "planar guy" so would never go with the PS Audio FR20's at $50k, I was really rooting for Paul McGowan. He seems like a nice guy and he seems to be really passionate about the new FR20's. Sad to hear it's a "dud."

The MG3.7i's is an awesome speaker and I dare say just about unbeatable at that price point.

Thanks for the insights, RJ. I’m just bouncing around ideas at this point. My local dealer carries both Magnepan and Focal so I’m going to audition both the 20.7’s and the Sopra No.3 and take it from there.

Absolutely the best option is always to compare live if possible. The 20.7's and Sopra No. 3's are very different speakers. Take the room they are going to be in into consideration. I would imaging the Sopra No. 3's are going to be easier to position. The maggies will produce incredible detail but they will sound very different due to the inherent planar design and bipolar radiation.

Please let us know what you think.

Thanks for the thoughts RJ!

I've been a Maggie user since 1986 so I've kind of have a soft spot for the brand. On the other hand, the lack of deep and powerful bass has always been a deficiency with the Maggies. I've not had the opportunity to try and pair a subwoofer with the panels because of my current room size limitations.

Since I'm an old fart at this point and still listen to rock and roll from the 60's onward, I might be inclined to go back to a dynamic driver speaker to get the bass that I'm currently lacking. I need to start the audition process and see how it goes.

The maggie base panels are going to be more forgiving in terms of placement so you may be able to get away with those despite the size limitation. You can also go with one panel, and then if you feel the need get a 2nd one if you really want a lot more low end. Or the alternative is simply pairing it with a traditional sub.

[Joe Appierto]

Just to be clear about it, the PS Audio FR20 is USD $18,999 in the US.

https://www.psaudio.com/products/aspen- ... udspeaker/

[admin]

Just to be clear about it, the PS Audio FR20 is USD $18,999 in the US.

https://www.psaudio.com/products/aspen- ... udspeaker/

Good point Joe. I overlooked that the $50k was the "down unda" price. Sometimes I forget that the poor folks in Australia are paying twice the amount for their gear. Doesn't seem fair. At $19k USD, it does make the purchase price more appealing for sure. I would still argue that when a speaker costs 5 figures there should be very minimal limitations on the audio quality and performance.

[Joe Appierto]

Couldn't agree with you more. It's obscene what our brothers and sisters in Oz pay for imported goods especially in this case.

I have never heard either the FR20 or the FR30. Whatever we may think of reviewers, however, the fact that Anthony H. Cordesman bought the review pair of the FR30 (even given favorable reviewer discounts) has to say something. The man has been around the block enough times to make me dizzy.

Just sayin' and no disrespect to the opinions of others.

[AnotherJohnson]

Another factor in PS Audio’s favor is that they will pay the round trip shipping on a 30 day in home trial.

https://www.psaudio.com/product-category/loudspeakers/

That’s pretty low risk.

Plus they’ll give you retail for your trade gear up to a pretty generous point.

Dealing with PS Audio seems pretty painless if you’re based in the US.

The other thing is that shows are often NOT THE PLACE to make the decision. In my opinion you can neither rule things out NOR in based on demos or reviews. Until you’re listening to it at home, you’re rolling the dice. That makes PSA’s 30 day trial invaluable.

Last, I am inclined to doubt that either the FR20 or FR40 would float my boat. This was actually discussed at some length in another thread. I don’t think PSA is going for time alignment and the design reflects this. They might be great in the right room with synergistic pairings. But I would not consider them if it weren’t for the 30 day no risk trial. Had I been at the show with RJ, I am sure that I would have agreed with him.

As for AHC, he is certainly well respected. But he is 83 years old. It is improbable that his hearing matches well with that of the sub 60 crowd. I’m sure mine doesn’t either. I think TAS just gave the FR30 a PotY award on the strength of AHC’s review.

I spent some time thumbing through Stereophile’s and TAS’s recommendations during the past year. Some make sense to me, but an awful lot of their recommendations are hard to justify, except in the sense that the products are probably good for their price point.

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes, sorry I forgot to mention 50grand AUD... not USD. They were definitely great looking, with an unusual stand mount... as if the whole speaker was floating... pretty cool up close.
Even though they had BHK amps and the matching preamp, something was off... we were wondering if it was the source (streaming... also kept cutting out), then some chap would run up to the gadget and fiddle with a few buttons and suddenly music's back on. It was playing OK for the most part but something was a miss. We even discussed it over a few coffees at the lounge but just couldn't arrive at any idea.

Then one of us figured it out! Ah! There was no wine and cheese being served... no wonder! That w & c combo is very very important for sound quality . The case is closed!

Apart from that, I think our crew are used to slightly different flavours; at the time (2 of us owned CLX's, 1 had SF-Strads, 1 had the Maggie's 30.7's, 1 had the Apogee Diva's and the other had Avant Garde Duo XD's). So when comparing the FR series speakers with that list... I guess that's going to be a hard sell. The hardest sell was that none of us paid 50grand AUD for our speakers! So the FR demo had absolutely no chance!

Anyway, this system hasn't sold yet... looking at 50grand there are plenty of other options. Yes, I do believe Paul MG is a great chap and his PSA gear is real vfm, unfortunately in kangaroo Valley we still have to pay top dollar!

Cheers, RJ

[Big Dog RJ]

CjayL, just checking in whether you got a chance to audition the MG20.7's or the Focal's as yet...?

I was just thinking about an early episode where it was causing a great amount of anxiety... in terms of audio, what a real world problem to have eh? This was going back to those early Infinity years... where I started with the IRS 1B's, Epsilon and ended up with Ren90's. At the same time I had three Maggie's; the MG3.5/r, MG3.6 and MG20.1. All three of them were sold off to make way for the Infinity's. Although they were superior in LF and specifically low bass notes, none of them had the sheer transparency and agility of full range ribbon panels.

Soon after I sold off the last pair of MG20.1's, I regretted every minute of it! I was trying to comfort myself into thinking about the ribbon tweeter replacements, the adhesives peeling off in tropical climes and that sort of thing... but I dearly missed that sheer openness and brilliance in midrange. Also to mention the full range ribbon bass, with speed and agility it was just superb! Drive it properly and the panels will deliver their utmost best. Use mediocre gear and that's what you get!

Which arrives at my main point, in your case, you've already got the experience with the MG3.7's and these are one of Magnepan's top end models. So with the new ART amplifiers you've got, looking at things from an overall perspective- performance, quality in reproduced music, price and vfm, I sincerely believe the MG20.7's are it!

I'm well aware that in my earlier posts, I was talking about a few niggles in Maggie's designs, such as the frame, crossovers and speaker terminals. However, these are fairly minor things that can be improved upon to achieve better results and again these mods can be done to arrive at a "custom sound." They can also be done over time... so they're not critical upgrades that require immediate attention. The music will still sound pristine!

Why I'm saying this now is, after having auditioned several top tier dynamic driver type speakers of lately, they were clearly far superior to other box type speakers but also top tier in all aspects. The major aspect being cabinet structure and drivers, which push the price up significantly! So unless you were considering the very top tier in dynamic design, you're not going to get what Maggie's can offer at the level of their MG20.7 series. The MG20 series really packs a serious punch and can very easily surpass systems costing 3-4 times the price. There's no doubt about it.

One of the absolute pleasures last week was the MG20.7's driven by Pass Labs and Jadis tube amplifiers. Although it was a fairly modded MG20.7, it was truly fantastic .
Now I'm actually wondering what the fuss is all about when I listen to either Alsyvox or now Clarisys, which costs 10 times more... are they really worth it?

These were the Jadis 200's monoblocks using KT150's partnered with a full array of Pass Labs preamps, which included a Pass Labs phono-preamp. Really tops!
Something to think about... since you already have access to Maggie's and you've got the ART300's, no issues driving large ribbon panels. The bass is outstanding!

However, one thing I did notice is that the larger the panel, obviously the larger the room. These things really opened up in quite a massive room, so there's no point in trying to squeeze these things into average to small rooms, it just won't work. I think this is where quite a number of setups get it wrong, and people tend to walk away from panels.

Just my 50cts worth.

Cheers, RJ

[admin]

However, one thing I did notice is that the larger the panel, obviously the larger the room. These things really opened up in quite a massive room, so there's no point in trying to squeeze these things into average to small rooms, it just won't work. I think this is where quite a number of setups get it wrong, and people tend to walk away from panels.

Agree with all your statements. I think maggies are some great bang for your buck. The one limitation that really can't be modded, fixed, corrected for, etc... is the room. Big planars don't do well in small rooms. I've never heard a big planar speaker sound "great" in a small room. They can still sound "good", but you are not getting the full potential of the speaker's capabilities.

[paulCJ]

I heard the Magnepan LRS+ at Axpona in 2022, and those sounded quite good. There was a sonic limitation in that room, but it was the solid state amps that Wilbur used.

[admin]

I heard the Magnepan LRS+ at Axpona in 2022, and those sounded quite good. There was a sonic limitation in that room, but it was the solid state amps that Wilbur used.

I would argue that the LRS+ is probably the best speaker quality per dollar you can buy. It's my "go to" recommendation for somebody looking for new speakers in the $1k range.

[paulCJ]

I've read that they need tons of power. My 45 watt CJ MV55 would not be up to the task, but do also have PS Audio M1200's that mate very nicely with a CJ PV10AL preamp. The M1200's have allowed me to continue enjoying tubes, but with only 2 smaller tubes to replace versus 7 tubes. But I still rotate components and put the MV55 into my system to enjoy the wonderful EL34's for a special sonic treat.

[admin]

If you want to blast rock music at 110 db, then they are not the best bet. However, for reasonable listening volumes in an average room they sound amazing (for the price). There are not many speakers in the $1k range that get you into the "audiophile" category. The LRS+ does. Is it the end all of speakers? Of course not. It's the start. But few will match it's performance in its price range. IMHO.

[Big Dog RJ]

Very true, stated by Admin.

The Maggie's LRS is a revelation to those seeking entry-level highend openness in sound. I've come across a few owners who've mated their LRS systems with subs, even gone to lengths in modifying the structure of the LRS with greater rigidness. Definitely sounded pretty darn good!

Re. To the MV55 driving Maggie's... no issues within limits of course. I've had the MV55 driving the much larger MGIIIa, no major issues at all. Ideal for late night sessions, soft to moderate levels and just superb musicality, I would listen for endless hours.

The MV55 is what started it all, actually it was a much older MV50 that I first had. Partnered with a PV8 driving a pair of Paradigm speakers, wonderful! That's when my real journey with tube gear began, especially going all the way with CJ, to Premier 8A's back then.

I've even driven the MGIIIa system with a little 35w tube amp from Cayin. Chinese tube amp made with point to point wiring, decent power supplies and SED Winged C EL34's. It drove the Maggie's just about ok. However, on certain dynamic peaks the EL34's tended to break up... sort of a soft clipping sound but still listenable.

However, changing over to the CJ gear or ARC and McIntosh MC275, all three of them were 1000 miles apart from the Cayin gear, there's just no comparison!
The other CJ amps I used with the MGIIIa were the MV60, MV60SE and CAV50. Absolutely glorious!

Thinking of that system back then, I enjoyed the "music" so much... why on earth did I ever change? I guess as AJ says, once you start comparing, the curiosity factor kicks in... and sooner or later, bang! There's a whole new system in the living room! Uh, who would've ever thought.

Enjoy that MV55! It's the real CJ classic tube sound at its heyday! Now that deserves a mighty WOOF!!!
RJ

[Cjaylundgren]

Latest update, I’ve signed a contract to build a 16’x25’ room on the back of my house to house the stereo system. Things are just too crowded in my current room with the new hardware. Once the room is completed, I’ve pretty much narrowed it down to upgrading my current Maggie 3.7’s to 20.7’s. Hopefully construction should be compete by late April. Updates to follow.

GO EAGLES!!!

[admin]

Hey, that awesome. There is nothing like having a great listening room. We spend hours talking about great, but the room is equally, if not sometimes more, important.

I think you will also be impressed by the upgrade to the 20.7's. They are just amazing speakers.

Keep us up to date!

[AnotherJohnson]

Latest update, I’ve signed a contract to build a 16’x25’ room on the back of my house to house the stereo system. Things are just too crowded in my current room with the new hardware. Once the room is completed, I’ve pretty much narrowed it down to upgrading my current Maggie 3.7’s to 20.7’s. Hopefully construction should be compete by late April. Updates to follow.

That’s great! Your system is worthy of the new space. I am excited for you!

[Big Dog RJ]

Ah! The MG20.7's, that's a fine choice. You can further study the framework of these very large panels and enhance their overall structure. By upgrading their rigidness, they take on another level that most haven't ever heard from Maggie's.

It's a remarkable level once done but it takes quite a bit of effort, it's worth it though. Just a thought if you were considering... (crossovers, fuses, jumper cables and bracing the frames from the back) placed on Solid plinths. With crossovers you can decide on parts based on your budget, sky's the limit and percentage in performance increases significantly.

I know quite a few who've gone to extremes, they don't sound like typical Maggie's at all, I was quite shocked and stunned!

Let us know how it goes.
Cheers, and all the best!
RJ

[Big Dog RJ]

Attn: CjayL

I forgot to mention, since you're focused on planar types being Maggie's, is there any chance of auditioning the new Clarisys line? They just signed up with their new distributor in Nth America, Sun Coast Audio. Not sure exactly where they're located but I'm assuming somewhere along the coast!

The Clarisys Audio panels are the next level, everything you want from a panel type speaker. The bass section consists of double sided bass panels, the ribbon tweeters are housed separately and run the full length of the driver's frame, very similar to the legendary Apogee's.

The build quality is superior, using heavy rigid steel and alloys, with a total weight starting at 90kgs all the way up to 250kgs. Plus the real beauty, they offer the very rare Neodymium magnets as an upgrade version.

The standard version is just as good but the Neodymium's add far greater efficiency to the speakers and allows them to be driven with low powered tube amps. The only issue is the Neodymium version costs about 25% more but are still more affordable compared to Alsyvox ribbons.

The Alsyvox are extremely good, in fact superb performance all round but they cost a bloody fortune, since every model incorporates Neodymium's in their line up. Hence, the starting point of the Alsyvox Tintorento is around 125grand, whereas the Clarisys starts at 30grand for the Minuette series. Even though these are much smaller panels, they all incorporate double sided bass panels, LF's go down to 20Hz... that's really low. Subs aren't required in this case!

My good mate had a chance to audition their Studio series, which starts at 60grand and is much larger... said it was a revelation to listen to. These will give Alsyvox a serious run for the money. Sun Coast Audio also has full service and warranty, these are made in Vietnam but there are no compromises at this level. Backed by a Swiss parent company based in Switzerland, distributor network already established in most of Europe and just now confirmed for the USA. They have established importers in HK, Vietnam and Spore but nothing down unda as yet, so I haven't had a chance.

There's a chap who was appointed as the Aus distributor, who got in contact with me but he doesn't have any models to demo... we've been waiting since last year Oct when they announced the Clarisys line. I think it's well worth an audition before you commit on Maggie's.

The chap who's really behind the whole thing is Florian. He's an avid supporter of Apogee's and has one of the very rare Apogee Grands that's been fully refurbed. It was Florian who teamed up with some professionals who have the skill and passion for ribbons and decided to give it an all out assault, thus introducing the Clarisys line. Visually they're stunning, and they can paint it in whatever colour you choose. If they had a distributor down unda, I wouldn't hesitate to get hold of their Minuette line, and that particular size fits most rooms.

Just a thought. Cheers,
RJ

[admin]

RJ makes some great recommendations. If you have a chance, check out these other contenders. Claisys, Alsyvox, etc...

One thing that Magnepan has an advantage is price. There is a lot of bang for your buck for all of these solutions but the Maggies are priced at a significant tier lower than the other options. Even the 20.7's which are the 2nd highest in the line are priced at under $14k. I think the build quality and look of the Claisys and Alsyvox are superior, but there is a hefty premium that goes along with that bonus. As for better sound quality,... that is up to the listener. You can also throw some modest funds into the maggies to improve the crossover and are more stable base. I can also vouch for the support services offered by Magnepan. I had one of my 20.1 panels damaged during shipping and had to send it in for a factor repair. This was about a decade ago and the entire base panel had to be replaced. It came under $1500 for the repair as well as the shipping, which is no small box for such a large speaker.

[Cjaylundgren]

Ok, sorry for the long delay. The new room is almost on the way to being finished. Hopefully only two more weeks and it’s move in time!