Noob to CJO

[Mish]

Hi
Hope all is well.
Have a full solid state Pass Labs System for some time
Now have the curiosity about valve equipment
Having heard some of the CJ models over the years and with a dealer not too far off just joined to read some for the opinions as I would probably have to purchase previously owned ones

Thanks for the opportunity to dabble around on the site

[admin]

Welcome to CJO, great to have you with us.

Pass Labs makes some lovely units. Really top of the line SS. Tubes are going to sound different and you are going to have tons of options on excellent CJ units on the preowned market. In the "Classifieds" section here on CJO, the top sticky post has a link to HiFi Shark search aggregator that lists all the units currently being sold on multiple sites. You may want to check that out.

Again, welcome to CJO!

[Mish]

Thank You

Will look into this

[roberto]

Hola Mish and welcome...
As Admin said, tubes are different to SS. You must have a serious listen on tubes, then SS, then back to tubes and SS, tubes and back to SS...this will reveal which your ears are happier. Trust in them, they are the final judges, no matter specs or what others say about it.

Have a piece of paper, or a note book on hand while doing the tests. Write what you did like and what did not. Choose easy well known tunes, with not too many musical instruments. The ones that you liked most. Listen carefully the sound, the size of the instruments, the stage, the holographic presentation, the harmonic texture, the air between the musical instruments and voices. Be exigent! Search for the naturalness and the one had made you tapping with your feet along the rhythm of the music.
Conrad Johnson sounds right!
Happy listening!

[Big Dog RJ]

G'day Mish, welcome to CJO! You're our newest member.
So, sooner or later you better own CJ gear soon! Otherwise there'll be tariffs and trade sanctions... since that's where we're heading with the Trumpster.

Speaking of which, I'm guessing that you're not based in the US nor of US origin, just like me because you referred to tooobs as "Valves." That sort of connotation only comes from either the UK, European region, Australia or Sth East Asia, which was my former home country. However, now living down unda Aus, I still refer to tubes as tubes! Must be the American education and upbringing.

Anyway funny you mentioned Pass Labs, I'm headed in that direction! Which Pass Labs gear do you currently have?

110% correct by our good Robbo mate, regarding tubes, there's nothing quite like CJ. It's in a class of its own, and CJ isn't ordinary tooobs. Very high level of musicality refinement, performance and finesse! Apart from all the quirky features they possess, once set-up properly in perfect spec, the tunes are mighty fine!

I've got a full array of CJ tube amplifiers driving ML CLX's full-range Electrostats. From top to bottom, preamp, phono-preamp and power amps are all CJ and custom modded to Class A output stages, except for the phono-preamp. That one is not touched.
After extensive experience with Pass Labs XA series amplifiers, this is where my CJ techie got the idea of integrating Class A circuits into tube gear. So he's done a few projects with ARC, VTL, Manley Labs and CJ to supreme performance! They don't sound anything like the original, complete radical change but still have that glorious CJ signature sound. He tried a few mods on Jadis amplifiers based on similar Class A circuits but those particular amplifiers went into thermal overload. Whereas Class A is concerned, CJ and ARC were the easiest for him to mod, and it's a marvellous concept. Just superb!

So, all in all, I'm extremely happy with this gear and have no intention of selling, upgrading nor replacing. It's a totally custom design and one that elevated the performance of these CLX's to optimal levels. That's good enough.

Considering the way prices are going in this topsy-turvy world... tube maintenance isn't getting much affordable, especially down unda Aus. Over here, the few tube suppliers we have are now charging close to $300 just for one bloody KT120 Output tube. That's $2400 AUD just for 8 KT120's! And prices aren't coming down.
Therefore, just as an alternative to tubes and leaning towards that fantastic Class A design on SS devices, so far the only ones that got me really interested are Pass Labs XA series line-up, they're superb! So in time to come, I'll decide between the XA60.8 or XA100.8 partnered with one of Pass Labs top line XP series preamps. Now that will be just dandy!

Why I mentioned this story above is because YOU need to know what it is you're after. Many so called audiophiles really don't know there preferred sound. Hence, they keep changing gear often and experience different things or flavours, thinking it's the next best thing... going in circles and it never ends. Only you can determine which type of sound you prefer and the associated gear. No one else can determine that factor for you.

It's like asking us what type of flavour of ice cream you would prefer...? How would we know that? Also, don't go chasing the latest and greatest... that is a sad never ending journey itself. So, just take your time, audition as much as possible across various CJ gear to match with your speakers and preamp. Most CJ amplifiers will have absolutely no issues driving difficult impedence loads. There are moderate powered ones and high powered ones, you'll have to decide on which types of amplifiers suit your listening habits and room dimensions. If you like to listen soft to moderate, there are plenty of options. If you listen really loud then high powered tube gear is available but it will cost a pretty penny. CJ high powered amplifiers aren't cheap, and like I said they aren't ordinary tube amps.

Perhaps when you do get the chance to audition a few models, do let us know which ones and we'll give our sincere advice. We generally like to spend your money! Also, let us know the rest of your system gear, that will help our members to make better suggestions on which CJ amplifiers to use (stereo, monoblocks etc.)

At the end of the day, if you've been using SS gear for quite a while, and have gotten used to SS then perhaps that's your preference. Engaging with tooobs and finding the right fit is tricky business but with CJ you will be rewarded with the highest level of fine quality. Just as our good mate Robbo mentioned. And that's the very reason I'm never selling my CJ tube gear, it's my preference, that's all. Pass Labs as an alternative choice is certainly nice to have on the side.

Cheers mate, hope all goes well with your quest.
RJ

[Wildcat]

I will say that of all the solid state equipment I've heard at audio shows, and this is coming from my tube system...Pass Labs amplifiers I could easily live with if I didn't have tubes. Constellation Audio is another--I've heard ML speakers through them a few times at the shows and have always come away pleased. PS Audio's BHK amps are also up there in listenability; however, they do use a tubed input stage. (Having heard the BHK amps and their Aspen FR30 speakers at the home office in Boulder, they were truly a system where the "system" disappeared and all I enjoyed was music.)

CJ tubes I wager are closer to Pass Labs so while it would be a difference, it is not as vast of a difference than it would be from some other brands. Going from Pass to C-J would be like going from a comfortable shoe into a *reeealllly* comfortable shoe.

That said, I wonder what C-J's older solid state amps sound like...

[Big Dog RJ]

CJ's older SS amplifiers had a high level of musicality. Nothing forced, quite expansive soundstage and great control of the speakers. I had all of their MF series, starting with the MF2100 to the MF2300A. They used all MosFet output devices and sounded very pleasant compared to most SS of that time, such as Krell, Bryston or Parasound. I do remember a very well known brand at the time, Aragon, which had quite a similar signature to CJ's SS. Both really good power amps at the time.

Then came the newer MF series, MF 2500 series upto the MF2550SE and of course the Premier 350A, that was something else! Far greater power and infinite control on difficult loads, no issues. The Prem350A had Bipolar transistors in their Output stages, similar to the Evo 2000. Massive power supplies, had plenty of current capacity and highly stable voltages across the impedence swing. Then CJ passed over their SS designs to Steve McCormack and he redesigned the SS line to higher levels. The McCormack line was serious stuff! Really solid power supplies, could drive anything.

However, having all this great SS series of amplifiers, they weren't quite anything close to CJ's tube gear, especially their Premier series. That's the level CJ was known for and they've achieved a very high standard. They tried a few hybrid designs with the ETS series ET250S and so but nothing higher Class than their very own tube designs. So that's the way forwards... and now JF is on a mission with his latest ART series amplifiers, they are simply superb! Nothing more to add.

Cheers, RJ

[Joe Appierto]

The CA200 which I've had for the last dozen years or so is kind of the kid brother to the Premier 350. It's about half the power rating of the 350 shoe-horned into the Premier 18 preamp casework. The CA200 also uses a bipolar output stage (as does the later CA150). Like RJ reports of their other ss designs, it also sounds quite nice but not nearly as nice (in my limited experience with the 11A and 140) as CJ's Premier tubed amp designs.