do you all pay retail for these new CJ pieces?
do you all pay retail for these new CJ pieces?
I wonder if it common to pay MSRP when buying 'new' CJ equipment or if these are ever discounted. If discounted, what are range of possible discounts one might receive and what did you do to get one aside from a discount as a result of a trade up. Thanks so much.
Re: do you all pay retail for these new CJ pieces?
Appreciate the insight. I am obviously new to this forum and am finding myself drawn to some of these pieces and need to understand more about the landscape
Re: do you all pay retail for these new CJ pieces?
Welcome to CJO. Great to have you with us.
If you buy a new CJ unit from a dealer, there can be some wiggle room for the price. As you mention, some may do a trade in of their old equipment to offset the price of the new. I've seen that done and the discount from that is going to be variable depending on what your dealer thinks they can get for your old equipment. CJ now directly sells as well so you can always email them and get a quote on a new unit.
If you are looking for a larger "bargain", then I think that is where the used market comes into play as that will obviously give you a much larger discount,... with all the associated negatives of not being the first owner.
If you buy a new CJ unit from a dealer, there can be some wiggle room for the price. As you mention, some may do a trade in of their old equipment to offset the price of the new. I've seen that done and the discount from that is going to be variable depending on what your dealer thinks they can get for your old equipment. CJ now directly sells as well so you can always email them and get a quote on a new unit.
If you are looking for a larger "bargain", then I think that is where the used market comes into play as that will obviously give you a much larger discount,... with all the associated negatives of not being the first owner.
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Home Theater in Member Gallery
Main stereo: ART Amplifier and ET7s2. 2nd stereo: PV-14L and MV-55. Previously Owned: PF2 preamp, Evolution 2000 Amp, PV-12AL preamp, D/A-2b Vacuum-Tube Digital Processor.
Home Theater in Member Gallery
Main stereo: ART Amplifier and ET7s2. 2nd stereo: PV-14L and MV-55. Previously Owned: PF2 preamp, Evolution 2000 Amp, PV-12AL preamp, D/A-2b Vacuum-Tube Digital Processor.
Re: do you all pay retail for these new CJ pieces?
Hola,
This is my point of view of buying from a dealer and also brand new un-open box units. Buying these products at retail price, the goods come with an insurance. This means that if in three years the unit fails, you don't pay for the repaired invoice. You only pay for the shipping. On used goods, there is no warranty, Also, you don't know the electronic condition of the unit. On these days, there are a lot of so called electronic shops where they don't have the right tools for doing the right service or they did a really bad job trying to fix the unit.
But you also could find good price and good condition units in the used in the market place. So the consideration regarding of how the used unit is uncertain. Beware of units with a very low price. This is telling that might be a problem with it.
This is my point of view of buying from a dealer and also brand new un-open box units. Buying these products at retail price, the goods come with an insurance. This means that if in three years the unit fails, you don't pay for the repaired invoice. You only pay for the shipping. On used goods, there is no warranty, Also, you don't know the electronic condition of the unit. On these days, there are a lot of so called electronic shops where they don't have the right tools for doing the right service or they did a really bad job trying to fix the unit.
But you also could find good price and good condition units in the used in the market place. So the consideration regarding of how the used unit is uncertain. Beware of units with a very low price. This is telling that might be a problem with it.
ML CLX BF-210 Stage X Mot 4. CJ 120SE amp ET7V2 pre, May Kte Dac. Power Cond. BPT Signature+ 3.5, Gaia II Feet. USB Lush^V3. Nordost SPM IC and Spk. Shun Mook, BCanto CD2 CD3. Oracle Delphi TT Moon 310LP Phono Denon DL103R MC.
Re: do you all pay retail for these new CJ pieces?
Exactly. Just like buying a used car. You get a big discount but you have no idea how (or if) the previous owner(s) abused the car. You are gambling on the discount. That's not necessarily bad, but there is a $ value with being the first owner and having a manufacturer's warranty.
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Home Theater in Member Gallery
Main stereo: ART Amplifier and ET7s2. 2nd stereo: PV-14L and MV-55. Previously Owned: PF2 preamp, Evolution 2000 Amp, PV-12AL preamp, D/A-2b Vacuum-Tube Digital Processor.
Home Theater in Member Gallery
Main stereo: ART Amplifier and ET7s2. 2nd stereo: PV-14L and MV-55. Previously Owned: PF2 preamp, Evolution 2000 Amp, PV-12AL preamp, D/A-2b Vacuum-Tube Digital Processor.
Re: do you all pay retail for these new CJ pieces?
Hi, thank you for the insight. I appreciate and agree about your points on the things to take into consideration when buying used. The heart of my question is more toward what % discount can one expect on these pieces when buying new if any. I also appreciate that folks may hold their cards close to the chest about this. I have overpaid on big things in my youth and want to take my time to get smarter about this despite being dazzled.
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Re: do you all pay retail for these new CJ pieces?
There is no rule of thumb. You need to talk to one or more dealers.
If you have an older CJ piece to trade, often the trades are generous, especially on recent models.
The CJ dealers generally have low overhead, and inventory is often drop shipped, reducing overhead further.
If you bundle a couple of pieces into one order, that is an enticement for the dealer to sharpen the deal.
But there is no known standard discount. Your deal will vary, just like with other small time boutique brands.
If you have an older CJ piece to trade, often the trades are generous, especially on recent models.
The CJ dealers generally have low overhead, and inventory is often drop shipped, reducing overhead further.
If you bundle a couple of pieces into one order, that is an enticement for the dealer to sharpen the deal.
But there is no known standard discount. Your deal will vary, just like with other small time boutique brands.
It’s just stuff. I like mine. I hope you like yours. I probably like yours too.
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Re: do you all pay retail for these new CJ pieces?
FWIW, the depreciation on nearly all high end brands is rapid and large. If you buy a $40k amp, you will be lucky to get $15k out of it two years later. And depreciation continues, albeit at a slower rate.
If you’re worried about taking a hit, buy used at the time the model is being discontinued or superseded.
It is especially difficult to trade CJ toward anything but CJ. So once you’re in, it’s hard to change horses.
As for warranty, the dealers are generally small, so they aren’t necessarily going to have resources to help beyond what CJ will do … hope springs eternal. How well the warranty works will depend on what country you’re in and what country the piece was in when it was sold. The importer is typically responsible for the warranty on units that importer has sold. In the US this does not come into play since all warranty work is at the factory in Virginia.
Keep in mind that CJ will not provide parts or schematics to after market repair places. There may be a few exceptions based on personal friendships with CJ, but the official position is that there are no authorized service centers except the factory.
If you’re worried about taking a hit, buy used at the time the model is being discontinued or superseded.
It is especially difficult to trade CJ toward anything but CJ. So once you’re in, it’s hard to change horses.
As for warranty, the dealers are generally small, so they aren’t necessarily going to have resources to help beyond what CJ will do … hope springs eternal. How well the warranty works will depend on what country you’re in and what country the piece was in when it was sold. The importer is typically responsible for the warranty on units that importer has sold. In the US this does not come into play since all warranty work is at the factory in Virginia.
Keep in mind that CJ will not provide parts or schematics to after market repair places. There may be a few exceptions based on personal friendships with CJ, but the official position is that there are no authorized service centers except the factory.
It’s just stuff. I like mine. I hope you like yours. I probably like yours too.
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Re: do you all pay retail for these new CJ pieces?
Here’s a link to the used inventory at the music room.
https://tmraudio.com/search-results-page?q=conrad
Some of these prices are way high compared to what they will eventually sell for.
https://tmraudio.com/search-results-page?q=conrad
Some of these prices are way high compared to what they will eventually sell for.
It’s just stuff. I like mine. I hope you like yours. I probably like yours too.
Re: do you all pay retail for these new CJ pieces?
Off my topic, but now you have me interested, do the ART88 and ET7S2 suffer the same precipitous drop? Im not one for switching, but its nice to always be "in the money'. Ive had my current preamp since the late 80s!
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Re: do you all pay retail for these new CJ pieces?
The only brand that holds more than 50% of its original value after a few years is McIntosh.
If you don’t want to eat the depreciation, buy used.
If you don’t want to eat the depreciation, buy used.
It’s just stuff. I like mine. I hope you like yours. I probably like yours too.
Re: do you all pay retail for these new CJ pieces?
@Echo3
Can you explain what you mean by "nice to always be 'in the money'" when it comes to audio equipment?
Can you explain what you mean by "nice to always be 'in the money'" when it comes to audio equipment?
Re: do you all pay retail for these new CJ pieces?
Hi. That's a dream scenario really maybe more applicable to collector watches or cars. Just want to make sure Im not the only one paying full retail and everyone else is getting heavy discounts. I think I read with some top tier brands maybe 20% was reasonable not including trade in, but I could have misread. Thx
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Re: do you all pay retail for these new CJ pieces?
You need to talk to one or more dealers.Echo3 wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2025 12:00 am Hi. That's a dream scenario really maybe more applicable to collector watches or cars. Just want to make sure Im not the only one paying full retail and everyone else is getting heavy discounts. I think I read with some top tier brands maybe 20% was reasonable not including trade in, but I could have misread. Thx
It would surprise me it were not possible to avoid paying retail.
It’s just stuff. I like mine. I hope you like yours. I probably like yours too.
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Re: do you all pay retail for these new CJ pieces?
Very good advice as noted above. This is also coming from someone who has been a dealer in this industry, so very valuable indeed.
As you walk in to any of the highend stores / dealerships, the first thing they'll ask you is, how much are you willing to spend? What's your budget and what are you after? This is like a sales pitch, so don't go too high to impress... and end up under a grand, they'll think your wasting their time. They'll probably point you to Amazon. So just be honest and stick to your finances, there's absolutely no need to show off.
Also just to add, having run my own dealership network for about 7yrs (long time ago in a galaxy far far away...) reaching out for discounts or a good deal, will also heavily depend upon the relationship you have with the dealer. After an initial purchase with one particular dealer, both parties are satisfied. This will lead to you recommending potential buyers towards this dealer, which will inturn offer you more access to discounts and special deals.
Then over a certain period of doing business with them, you'll develop a trust factor and vice versa, eventually becoming your preferred dealer. The main point being, you'd also have to like the gear they offer, so it may not always be CJ but others of equally top quality.
The thing is, if you're just going to go around meeting & greeting few dealers... they may get a sense that you're just shopping around looking for a bargain, hence considered as cheap. In which case no one will take you seriously, and some may even give you the cold shoulder. The one/s you do actually engage with, will be the ones you may actually develop a relationship for life! After that, the tooons are fine!
On another note: some dealers may have done trade-ins, so they'll have a different room full of previously owned gear in good working condition. Check these items as well because sometimes you may be very lucky to find a top brand of gear at a very reasonable price, which the dealer will want to get rid of. Always enquire about this trade-in category, it's something to look at.
**Note** the above scenario I've described is a typical Asian based type of culture and business. To be specific, Sth East Asia, which is where my dealership network was based across 6 countries. This is my first hand experience spanning about 7yrs from 97 to 2004. Therefore, your culture and the country you're based in may obviously differ from business practices compared with mine. I've left Sth East Asian region and now reside in Aus (Down Unda) things over hear are absolutely topsy turvy, nothing even remotely related to the Sth East Asian region but it's an ever learning curve to live in.
Hope all goes well, and keep us posted on your findings and the great gear you may come across.
Cheers, RJ
As you walk in to any of the highend stores / dealerships, the first thing they'll ask you is, how much are you willing to spend? What's your budget and what are you after? This is like a sales pitch, so don't go too high to impress... and end up under a grand, they'll think your wasting their time. They'll probably point you to Amazon. So just be honest and stick to your finances, there's absolutely no need to show off.
Also just to add, having run my own dealership network for about 7yrs (long time ago in a galaxy far far away...) reaching out for discounts or a good deal, will also heavily depend upon the relationship you have with the dealer. After an initial purchase with one particular dealer, both parties are satisfied. This will lead to you recommending potential buyers towards this dealer, which will inturn offer you more access to discounts and special deals.
Then over a certain period of doing business with them, you'll develop a trust factor and vice versa, eventually becoming your preferred dealer. The main point being, you'd also have to like the gear they offer, so it may not always be CJ but others of equally top quality.
The thing is, if you're just going to go around meeting & greeting few dealers... they may get a sense that you're just shopping around looking for a bargain, hence considered as cheap. In which case no one will take you seriously, and some may even give you the cold shoulder. The one/s you do actually engage with, will be the ones you may actually develop a relationship for life! After that, the tooons are fine!
On another note: some dealers may have done trade-ins, so they'll have a different room full of previously owned gear in good working condition. Check these items as well because sometimes you may be very lucky to find a top brand of gear at a very reasonable price, which the dealer will want to get rid of. Always enquire about this trade-in category, it's something to look at.
**Note** the above scenario I've described is a typical Asian based type of culture and business. To be specific, Sth East Asia, which is where my dealership network was based across 6 countries. This is my first hand experience spanning about 7yrs from 97 to 2004. Therefore, your culture and the country you're based in may obviously differ from business practices compared with mine. I've left Sth East Asian region and now reside in Aus (Down Unda) things over hear are absolutely topsy turvy, nothing even remotely related to the Sth East Asian region but it's an ever learning curve to live in.
Hope all goes well, and keep us posted on your findings and the great gear you may come across.
Cheers, RJ
Re: do you all pay retail for these new CJ pieces?
I think the point that RJ makes about being honest is important. I would give them a budget and they should help you. I think there is a reasonable expectation that there will be some wiggle room at whatever price range you have. I've been in the position earlier in my life where my budget was literally zero. There was a high end audio store right across where I was doing my training and would go in. They were still super nice, knew I couldn't afford anything in the store at that time, and still were happy to give me listening demos on flagship Wilson speakers. If you go there on a day that is not busy, not BS'ing, I find most dealers are friendly, genuinely enjoy music, and are willing to invest some time because even if you are not in a position to be a customer today, you may be in the future. Again, I think being up front and honest is the best way to go. Also, many high end dealers still sell used (and some new) gear in the 3 figure range so it's not just 5 figure purchases that they deal with.
Last time I went to my local high end shop, the most common piece of gear I saw were Bluesound nodes in almost every room. So they must sell a lot of those as well.
Last time I went to my local high end shop, the most common piece of gear I saw were Bluesound nodes in almost every room. So they must sell a lot of those as well.
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Home Theater in Member Gallery
Main stereo: ART Amplifier and ET7s2. 2nd stereo: PV-14L and MV-55. Previously Owned: PF2 preamp, Evolution 2000 Amp, PV-12AL preamp, D/A-2b Vacuum-Tube Digital Processor.
Home Theater in Member Gallery
Main stereo: ART Amplifier and ET7s2. 2nd stereo: PV-14L and MV-55. Previously Owned: PF2 preamp, Evolution 2000 Amp, PV-12AL preamp, D/A-2b Vacuum-Tube Digital Processor.
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Re: do you all pay retail for these new CJ pieces?
As far as I feel it no one pays exactly full retail in high-end, except people paying in instalments or deals with part-exchanges - if you pay in full when the equipment is delivered we usually get a discount. The percent of discount depends on price of the gear and on on the acquisition process - if we have home demos and spend long time selecting probably the discount will be smaller.
In my opinion, unfortunately current high-end gear is overpriced, suggesting that dealers have margin to give decent discounts. BTW, all my conrad johnson gear was bought used and is still in as new condition - cj is made to last.
Concerning schematics and repairs, what we have in this forum is enough for any good technician - they keep the same basic circuits and the components are not proprietary, except the Teflon capacitors, that are extremely reliable and long lasting. Conrad Johnson does not disguise or erase component references, as some manufacturers do.
In my opinion, unfortunately current high-end gear is overpriced, suggesting that dealers have margin to give decent discounts. BTW, all my conrad johnson gear was bought used and is still in as new condition - cj is made to last.
Concerning schematics and repairs, what we have in this forum is enough for any good technician - they keep the same basic circuits and the components are not proprietary, except the Teflon capacitors, that are extremely reliable and long lasting. Conrad Johnson does not disguise or erase component references, as some manufacturers do.
Currently listening mostly to dCS Vivaldi, cj GAT2 preamplifier, cj ART amplifiers and SoundLab A1Px's.
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Re: do you all pay retail for these new CJ pieces?
110% true and correct!
WOOF!
RJ
WOOF!
RJ
Re: do you all pay retail for these new CJ pieces?
@Echo3. You could always contact Jeff Fishel at Conrad Johnson (strong hint).
I recently acquired a GAT-S2 preamp. One of the best audio decisions I have ever made.
I recently acquired a GAT-S2 preamp. One of the best audio decisions I have ever made.