P12 vs 120s
P12 vs 120s
I own a pair of Premiere 12's (stock). Every once in a while I see a 120SE which has teflon caps in it. Which amp is considered higher in the line as a better performer. I may pick them up just to have them..I dont plan on getting rid of my P12's. Thanks
VPI Classic II, Dynavector 20X2L, Art Audio Vinyl Reference, CJ ET5 Linestage, CJ Premier 12's, NAD M23, Holo Spring 3 Dac, Emotica ERC3 Transport, Roon Rock, TWL, Wywires, etc
Re: P12 vs 120s
Both units are wonderful and provide roughly the same power output. I think one aspect of the 120 is that you are getting a unit 30 years younger. A very different generation of CJ gear. Better or worse sounding? I think that is personal taste. It would be amazing just to be able to do A/B testing in the same system.
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Home Theater in Member Gallery
Main stereo: ART Amplifier and ET7s2. 2nd stereo: PV-14L and MV-55. Previously Owned: PF2 preamp, Evolution 2000 Amp, PV-12AL preamp, D/A-2b Vacuum-Tube Digital Processor.
Home Theater in Member Gallery
Main stereo: ART Amplifier and ET7s2. 2nd stereo: PV-14L and MV-55. Previously Owned: PF2 preamp, Evolution 2000 Amp, PV-12AL preamp, D/A-2b Vacuum-Tube Digital Processor.
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Big Dog RJ
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Re: P12 vs 120s
Prem12's are special! Such that they were highly regarded in CJ's Premier line, and only second in overall performance compared to the mighty Prem8A's. I owned all three of these (Prem11A, Prem12's and Prem8A's) and the Premier line of power amplifiers ran for a number of years. They can still hold strong even to this day, provided a few things have been looked after and well maintained.
It also depends primarily on the type of system you have, especially the speakers. If your speakers are power hungry, inefficient design and hard to drive, each of the Premier monoblocks offers just that! More power / headroom on tap to drive difficult loads vs extremely difficult loads (ex full range stats, Infinity's IRS series or Apogee Diva's!) Man, were those the Glory days! Really the pinnacle of audio and everything in highend. Now, considering price points in highend, you'd either have to tap into a lot of your savings or deal in drug money to be able to afford the top tier gear. Some are priced just plain stupid silly, yet people buy.
The new Classic line by CJ has evolved over several top level amplifiers along the years of CJ design. So going from the Premier series to LP series and now the ART series is where things are at, that very upper end of the spectrum. The Classic series gets the best of both those categories, which has a bit of Art performance as well as the LP performance, which the LP series was known for. It's a superb design in power amplification and with the right type of speakers to match, it's one SOTA combination money can buy.
The Classic series still has some of that gorgeous golden glow that CJ was designed on, with a very high level of musicality, along with a performance & price ratio that's extremely hard to surpass, unless you were spending a fortune more. The Classic series design circuit is also as simple as it gets, even further refined and less parts compared to the previous LP series, and these amplifiers are capable of driving difficult loads, regardless of speaker design. Even the Classic 62se, although rated at just 60w/ch, can drive most loads with ease. The Classic 120se is a power house! Nothing short of marvellous, and doesn't flinch one bit under stress. I've used the Classic 120se on my CLX's for a few months, and there was nothing to fault. It was superb!
(Then the question is, why didn't I just keep it? Well that's a matter of personal preference, since I've always wanted to have Class A monoblocks, and I'm not spending 60grand for CJ's ART108A's). Therefore, my modded 60w Class A monoblocks are mighty fine, and I didn't want to mod a Classic 120se... what's the point in that!
Also owned the earlier versions of the classic 60, 60se and 62se, driving Quad ESL 2905's. They were fantastic! Partnered with the ACT2 and later on the ACT2 S2, a top notch combination in pre-power, nothing else to add.
So, if you're going to consider the Classic 120se and install it in a system comprising of high performance speakers, you'll have no issues driving difficult loads either. The overall performance will depend on your preamp and source gear, plus cabling accessories. As far as the Classic 120se is concerned, there's nothing lacking there. It's as good as it gets. If you really wanted to surpass the whole thing and achieve blistering speed with a thunderous thud, the ART150 or ART300's would suit better but they cost a pretty penny.
After listening and living with the Classic 120se, you actually might get used to it, and prefer the single chassis offered in a stereo amp design vs monoblock config that takes up more space, requires more connections plus extra power cords... so again all depends on what you're after.
If you're just curious about the performance level and would like to venture towards a Classic 120se for different flavours in music or sound then that's exactly what you're going to get! Either one won't surpass the other, if all things being equal in your particular system, which it is. What you will experience is a further level of definition and inner detail on the Classic 120se, plus the full use of the KT120's because this design was optimised on the KT120's.
The Premier 12's weren't optimised on the KT120's, although they could accept these tubes, the Prem12's were optimised on the 6550's, and they performed supremely well in that regard. So, this is a matter of flavours being compared, nothing major in differences here, other than the fact that the Classic 120se is a much newer design. That's about it!
This is just my 50cts worth of experience after having owned both types of amplifiers, just wanted to share that with you.
Cheers, RJ
It also depends primarily on the type of system you have, especially the speakers. If your speakers are power hungry, inefficient design and hard to drive, each of the Premier monoblocks offers just that! More power / headroom on tap to drive difficult loads vs extremely difficult loads (ex full range stats, Infinity's IRS series or Apogee Diva's!) Man, were those the Glory days! Really the pinnacle of audio and everything in highend. Now, considering price points in highend, you'd either have to tap into a lot of your savings or deal in drug money to be able to afford the top tier gear. Some are priced just plain stupid silly, yet people buy.
The new Classic line by CJ has evolved over several top level amplifiers along the years of CJ design. So going from the Premier series to LP series and now the ART series is where things are at, that very upper end of the spectrum. The Classic series gets the best of both those categories, which has a bit of Art performance as well as the LP performance, which the LP series was known for. It's a superb design in power amplification and with the right type of speakers to match, it's one SOTA combination money can buy.
The Classic series still has some of that gorgeous golden glow that CJ was designed on, with a very high level of musicality, along with a performance & price ratio that's extremely hard to surpass, unless you were spending a fortune more. The Classic series design circuit is also as simple as it gets, even further refined and less parts compared to the previous LP series, and these amplifiers are capable of driving difficult loads, regardless of speaker design. Even the Classic 62se, although rated at just 60w/ch, can drive most loads with ease. The Classic 120se is a power house! Nothing short of marvellous, and doesn't flinch one bit under stress. I've used the Classic 120se on my CLX's for a few months, and there was nothing to fault. It was superb!
(Then the question is, why didn't I just keep it? Well that's a matter of personal preference, since I've always wanted to have Class A monoblocks, and I'm not spending 60grand for CJ's ART108A's). Therefore, my modded 60w Class A monoblocks are mighty fine, and I didn't want to mod a Classic 120se... what's the point in that!
Also owned the earlier versions of the classic 60, 60se and 62se, driving Quad ESL 2905's. They were fantastic! Partnered with the ACT2 and later on the ACT2 S2, a top notch combination in pre-power, nothing else to add.
So, if you're going to consider the Classic 120se and install it in a system comprising of high performance speakers, you'll have no issues driving difficult loads either. The overall performance will depend on your preamp and source gear, plus cabling accessories. As far as the Classic 120se is concerned, there's nothing lacking there. It's as good as it gets. If you really wanted to surpass the whole thing and achieve blistering speed with a thunderous thud, the ART150 or ART300's would suit better but they cost a pretty penny.
After listening and living with the Classic 120se, you actually might get used to it, and prefer the single chassis offered in a stereo amp design vs monoblock config that takes up more space, requires more connections plus extra power cords... so again all depends on what you're after.
If you're just curious about the performance level and would like to venture towards a Classic 120se for different flavours in music or sound then that's exactly what you're going to get! Either one won't surpass the other, if all things being equal in your particular system, which it is. What you will experience is a further level of definition and inner detail on the Classic 120se, plus the full use of the KT120's because this design was optimised on the KT120's.
The Premier 12's weren't optimised on the KT120's, although they could accept these tubes, the Prem12's were optimised on the 6550's, and they performed supremely well in that regard. So, this is a matter of flavours being compared, nothing major in differences here, other than the fact that the Classic 120se is a much newer design. That's about it!
This is just my 50cts worth of experience after having owned both types of amplifiers, just wanted to share that with you.
Cheers, RJ