GAT1 versus GAT2

[paulCJ]

I am of just the opposite mentality, the "if it isn't broken, don't fix it mentality," lol. It is a smaller crossover box than the larger ones that came with the IRS Beta's and a few others. Is something I simply do not want to start opening up to see how difficult it is, and somehow break the box in the process. What I do know is how magical everything is with this in the system, and just don't want to risk messing with the magic box.

[admin]

I think this is reasonable. If you are happy with the sound, why spend money trying to change it?

[paulCJ]

It has been a few months since my last post about the GAT-S2 preamp, and wanted to provide an update. I was warned that purchasing a GAT-S2 could be a slippery slope that could lead to upgrading other parts of the system. This turned out to be 100% true. After borrowing, and having in my system, a Grimm MU2 streamer/DAC, I had to have one. The level of musicality of the MU2/GAT-S2/5302 (Levinson) combination is just off the charts good. Whether feeding the FR20 speakers from PS Audio or the lowest on the totem pole Magnepan LRS+, music is just jaw-dropping good. Clean, open, musical, vibrant, dynamic. Female vocals were fantastic on my older PV10AL & MV55 combo, and, to my ears, a million times better with this newer combination.

[admin]

Yes, this is a common problem with upgrades. You come to realize that the amazing sound you had previously can actually be substantially improved. Nice 1st world problems to have!

Regardless, congrats on the system!

[paulCJ]

Thanks!! 30+ years into this hobby, I am having the most fun ever with my system. This reminds me of the fun I had when I went from a NAD receiver to the PV10AL & MV55 with the Infinity Modulus speaker system. Those were fun times. But these times are WAY more fun. An audiophile buddy recommended I listen to "New Favorite" by Alison Krauss and "Chasing Cars" performed by Chantal Chamberland (the Snow Patrol song). Both sound just jaw-dropping good. Chasing Cars, in particular, might just be the best recorded female vocals I have ever heard.

And yes, just when I thought everything was good before, several of us audiophiles went to a retailer and heard music that just blew away my previous system that I had thought was good, though I knew that while classical and jazz and female vocals sounded quite good, there was a non-cleanness to my system that was evident with rock music, even well recorded rock music. Now I have the cleanness and musicality both, without compromising either, and was pure luck that everything came together so nicely.

[admin]

I've also had very similar experiences with the upgrades of the system over the years. These incremental improvements can be rather substantial. I find that I tell myself, "wow this is a great system, probably not worth upgrading as just how much better could it be?" And then I find gear that just elevates it to another level and I prove myself wrong. I appreciate the older gear as well but the newer offerings can really be amazing.

I'll have to check out those albums.

[paulCJ]

I am just floored at how good the GAT-S2 preamp is. The more I listen, the more I realize how spectacular this preamp is. And I have read that some feel the Art88 preamp is even better? How is this even possible? LOL.
I did do one more upgrade, I purchased a Levinson 534 amp on the used market. It was a good price to begin with, negotiated a little further, and traded in some non-CJ gear that I had. With the GAT-S2 feeding the 534, I think I can stop, finally stop the continual upgrading mission that started with purchasing PS Audio FR20 speakers. I of course will still be tempted by a Gryphon PowerZone, as the magic that device has is undeniable, and will also be tempted to upgrade interconnect and power cables, but I have to stop for a while.

[Big Dog RJ]

Don't stop! We'll help you spend your money... just wait till you audition the ART88, then you'll be packing up the GATS2.

It's the vicious cycle that continues... and the only way to stop it, is only YOU can draw the line, no one else. I've already drawn the line long gone.

But hey! Like I said, not to worry it's all easy peasy from up here, you're just an ART88 and ART phono-preamp away, just a few steps mate. You'll get there.
Woof! RJ

[paulCJ]

The vinyl rabbit hole. I haven't jumped down that hole, and for me is easy to resist that one. But after hearing the Gryphon PowerZone in my system, I know that will be a future upgrade. It might even yield a bigger benefit than upgrading preamps. Yes, the PowerZone is THAT good. It is easy to dismiss a power product like that, but several members on the PS Audio Forums have been drooling over how good the PZ is, and after borrowing one for over a week, I have to agree, as the GAT-S2 really benefits from the PZ.

[microstrip]

For a long time I have been using power regenerators in my system (PowerEdge and PS Audio units) . I found that they improved significantly the sound quality in my system. After I moved in a new house I found that their effect was negligible - some differences in sound, but just differences. The explanation was easy - I moved in a place 50 meters away from a power station and the quality of mains is now much higher, as confirmed by mains measurements, including distortion and noise.

As always, it is a question of value for money in our particular system. In my experience in my system I found that the GAT-S2 was not very sensitive to mains, but cj tube amplifiers (as most tube power amplifiers) are sensitive to the mains voltage value.

Please remember that I live in Europe and mains distribution system in Europe are different from US - here neutral is grounded at the power station, not at building entrance.

[paulCJ]

@microstrip, if you have an opportunity to try a Gryphon Powerzone, try it, but also be prepared to purchase one, as once you have one in your system, you won't want to be without one.

[paulCJ]

Well, the upgrade path has continued to cost me money, as I was warned by Admin, Another Johnson & Big Dog, lol.
My system components are now Grimm MU2 feeding the GAT-S2 feeding the Levinson 534, driving PS Audio FR20's, all powered by a Gryphon PowerZone. For listening to cd's, I still have a Panasonic 4k blu-ray disc player with the digital output feeding the MU2 for d/a conversion.

My latest upgrades have been with interconnect, with Front Row Reserve by Audience Cables between the MU2 & GAT and from GAT to 534.
The openness, clarity, imaging, transparency and tonal balance is light years ahead of where I was before. Female vocals, saxophone, trumpet, piano, drums, and violins all sound so real. The streamer/DAC and the amp seem to be at the same level as the GAT. The PowerZone and the Front Row Reserve rca interconnect both seem to help the GAT do its magic.

[admin]

Ah yes, the never-ending pursuit of audio nirvana!

Well, I'm glad you reached the next level. That is one mighty fine audio system with top of the line equipment. That's one of the great things about this hobby. When you think you have the best system possible, a new piece takes it to the next level. But it's all worth it when you sit down and you get to enjoy that sound.

[Big Dog RJ]

Good on ya mate! Now just sit back and enjoy those finest tooons.
That deserves a mighty WOOF!!!
Cheers, RJ

[paulCJ]

Thanks Admin, thanks Big Dog. Audio has been fun, and I have been lucky, extremely lucky, that the various components work well together, and the significantly reduced pricing on the used market has allowed these upgrades to happen.

[pvdmaas]

Maybe this topic was just closed, but I still have a question.
Previously I had a PV12 and a Premier 17, now I have a Premier 16 S2, but without the Teflon capacitors. I live in the Netherlands and for around $2,500 I could have Teflon capacitors installed, but the unit would need to be sent to the USA and then back again. Unfortunately, this cannot be done in Europe.

I have 2x mono (interstage 2x 300B ANK) and was considering an ART3, but the GAT (1 or 2) doesn’t use my favorite tube, whereas the ART88 does.
What kind of ratings would the experts give to these three: a Premier 16 with Teflon capacitors, the ART3, and the GAT? I have to forget about the ART88 for now due to the price.
Or alternatively — is it worth sending the Premier 16 to the USA for the upgrade?
Maybe someone has been able to listen to one.
Musical greetings from the Netherlands!

[admin]

Of course there is a lot of personal preference here but all things being equal I would personally go with: ART88 > GAT-s2 > ART3 > Premier 16.

Now I strongly emphasize "personal preference" as the sound is going to be rather different on the extremes here. So if you are looking for "old school tube CJ sound", the older the unit the more of that flavor you are going to get. But reliability becomes a major issue with gear that is more than two decades old so that is also something one should consider. The older the unit, the less financial sense it makes to put a lot of money into upgrades as you will never get that back at resale. But if you really love the sound of the Premier 16 and that is really what you preference is, then I think there is nothing fundamentally wrong with "investing" into your preferred sound.

That's probably not too helpful but realistically I don't think there is a "right or wrong" answer.

[stereoquest]

Admin is not wrong and chooses the words used in the replies well . It’s all rather personal and the results will vary depending on preference- and listening experience with the individual units listed and ability to work on them or have access to a tech who can ( there are not many ).

I am quite passionate about the older stuff , but even I would not remotely consider spending that sort of money on an upgrade to a Premier 16s2. That’s a lot extra belegen kaas going to waste ! The hybrids have a sound and they may or may not fit in with what you like, tube variant aside. In the older units some parts are now obsolete and as mentioned are coming up to or past 20 years old .

take your pre amp value, add the teflon upgrade and shipping and that brings you to a number that has many options in pre amplifier ….all of which can be sold on if not liked ….

That’s my 2cents

Stereoquest

[Big Dog RJ]

Just to add 50cts worth:

Yes, correct advice by Admin and Sq. Spending nearly 3grand to upgrade a Premier 16LS is a fair bit of $$$, plus something that someone would do only if they were really "married" to the 16LS.

If you can, of course finances permitting, the GATS2 or S1 would be very nice. These are much newer products, with better tube design, their buffered type output stages are liked by many and disliked by a few... but that's based on personal preferences. Overall, the GAT series preamps are top notch, so you really can't go wrong there.

Note: when upgrading to a GAT or higher end series preamp, just make sure the rest of your gear (amps + source) are upto par. Otherwise, you'll find yourself changing again, eventually upgrading everything and spending a lot more than just 3grand...

Rather than the GAT, I would highly recommend either the ET6se or any of the ET7 series, before jumping into a GAT. You'll understand why later.

Cheers, RJ

[paulCJ]

Big Dog warned me about the upgrade path I might be headed for with upgrading to a used GAT-S2 preamp. I ended up upgrading streamer/dac, power amp (twice), power product, and now interconnect. I have since made the mistake of borrowing some really nice power cables, and am going to have to upgrade those, one by one, starting with a power cable for the streamer/dac.