LP12 and Clearaudio Master Reference

[roberto]

Dear AJ,
Spending that amount for a cartridge, and knowing that they made a mistake with the needle protector, the less thing to do is what they did. It is also, good to know, that still are great dealers and very friendly support for what happened to you. Linn really lost customers with their bad support.

Enjoy your music and system. You made a big turn in a couple of years and really got great stuff. Congrats!!!

[AnotherJohnson]

Dear AJ,
Spending that amount for a cartridge, and knowing that they made a mistake with the needle protector, the less thing to do is what they did. It is also, good to know, that still are great dealers and very friendly support for what happened to you. Linn really lost customers with their bad support.

Enjoy your music and system. You made a big turn in a couple of years and really got great stuff. Congrats!!!

I think the problem was at least partly my own fault because I was concerned that I would snap the cantilever if I slipped while forcing the protector into place. So I left it off and asked them to send one known to fit. The protector is not installed on the cartridge inside the plastic pyramid from the factory. That is probably a shortcoming in their packaging design.

By leaving the protector off, the stylus was vulnerable to getting bumped or snagged … and, being used to having a protector in place, my work habits around the turntable were not sufficiently cautious.

So … feeling culpable, I did not ask them to replace the cartridge. I asked for a working stylus protector for when my cartridge came back from Steve Leung’s repair.

They came up with the warranty replacement on their own, probably following the train of thought that you outlined.

In any event, the whole process from failure to fix took less than a week. Musical Surroundings is an exceptional importer. Clearaudio is well represented by them.

On the cost of vinyl, I think if you think about the cost of records, phono preamp, TT, cartridge, RCM, etc, you will run screaming to streaming.

[Joe Appierto]

On the cost of vinyl, I think if you think about the cost of records, phono preamp, TT, cartridge, RCM, etc, you will run screaming to streaming.

If you follow some of the threads on the PS Audio forum some members there spend quite a bit on cables, filters and switches as well for streaming equipment. DACs and the streamers only add to the fun.

Back in the late 60s and a while thereafter, the person who introduced me to what high end audio was capable of had a Rabco linear tracking arm on his turntable. I'm assuming this was one of the first? He used it on an Empire Troubadour and/or Thorens TD-124 MkII turntable. You familiar at all with it?

Just curious. Thanks.

[AnotherJohnson]

Cables are crazy too. I have a 25’ custom pair of Transparent balanced Reference Series between the ARC Ref Phono 3SE and the Burmester 088. My streamer/DAC only has a 1.5 m pair of balanced AQ Thunderbird Zeros. Streaming is cheaper again

I do remember the powered linear tracking arms. I had a Technics SLQL1 myself. What set Lou Souther’s efforts apart was that his arms were passive, much like a gimbal or unipivot.

The HW19 with Souther TriQuartz and Clearaudio Veritas was a potent combination. It was exciting to demo, but so expensive that it was a hard sell. The TriQuartz and Veritas retailed for over $1600 as a package. Who in their right mind would spend that much?

[AnotherJohnson]

Another tidbit about comparing my Linn/lyra to my Clearaudio/TT2 …

If you bump any part of the stand on which the Linn sits, you will hear it.

You can whack the stand on which the Clearaudio sits, and it’s virtually inaudible.

Obviously you don’t intentionally touch the stand while listening, but this result suggests that the mass of the Clearaudio is more effective at isolating the cartridge than the elaborate spring system used by Linn.

They both sound great in normal use.

[AnotherJohnson]

On sound quality I’m pretty happy with both the LP12/EkosSE/Etna Lambda and the Master Reference/TT2/Jubilee MC.

But on ergonomics, I’m in love with the latter.

Most turntable aficionados are familiar with the LP12. In the current high end version, the honeycomb keel subchassis is the platform on which the platter bearing and arm board are rigidly fixed. The motor and optical speed feedback sensor are mounted on the top which is supported by the plinth. The keel is suspended from the top by three springs which are tuned to filter out audio frequencies from the keel.

The controller (the Radikal) is in a separate box. The speed sensor feeds a once per rev signal to the Radikal. The sensor’s marker is on the underside of the platter.

The motor is a Swiss made Maxxon DC motor, and it drives the platter with a flat belt. The platter is a relatively light two concentric circles design. The inner circle is supported by the point contact bearing, and it is the part on which the belt rides.

People are generally less familiar with the design of the Master Reference. There are two tripod platforms, six columns in all. One three column assembly supports three motors. The other three column assembly supports the platter bearing and arm board(s). The platter bearing is centrally located. The three columns can each support an arm board if desired.

The two three column assemblies do not touch each other. So the motors are not directly creating noise in the platter or arms.

Each of the three motors drives the platter through a thin round cross section belt. The three belts are each on its own level. The platter is about three inches thick, very heavy, and supported by a magnetic bearing on a ceramic spindle. The three belts cancel each other as each tries to pull the platter toward its column.

The motors are controlled sequentially by plugging them into a synchronized separate power supply/ controller.

So the Linn tries to keep acoustic feedback out of the signal by vibration isolation using springs. The Clearaudio tries to control acoustic feedback into the signal by using a massive rigid structure.

My opinion is that both work very well, suggesting that there are many ways to skin a cat, and that the implementation is more important than the concept at this level.

If I’m running the top gimbal style arm on both tables, my sense is that I prefer the Linn. But if the linear tracking TT2 is on the Master Reference, it is much harder to pick based on SQ, and so the ergonomics of using the gear comes into greater play. I could live happily with either, and I am glad I don’t have to choose between them.

[admin]

Both are amazing units. I will say that the engineering and design on the Clearaudio is just at another level. I know that it doesn't necessarily make it "superior," but I think that extra level of complexity deserves attention. I look at the Clearaudio as an ultra-highend modern design. I think the Linn is more of "decades of finesse and refinement."

Both are beautiful. Both are outstanding performers. Both make me salivate!

[AnotherJohnson]

Both are amazing units. I will say that the engineering and design on the Clearaudio is just at another level. I know that it doesn't necessarily make it "superior," but I think that extra level of complexity deserves attention. I look at the Clearaudio as an ultra-highend modern design. I think the Linn is more of "decades of finesse and refinement."

Both are beautiful. Both are outstanding performers. Both make me salivate!

They both represent evolution dating back to the 1970s … and the current flagship of the Clearaudio (the Statement) is definitely a no holds barred design. Clearaudio is the actual builder of the current line of McIntosh turntables too.

But the truth is that both Linn and Clearaudio are serious manufacturing companies with significant engineering staffs and well thought out manufacturing and distribution strategies.

The Clearaudio stuff is more “bling” oriented. The Linn stuff is more “inner beauty” oriented.

To me it is fascinating that these two turntables are different at every decision point, yet both deliver great vinyl playback. Arguments over the best turntable look to me like they must originate in business school marketing departments.

[AnotherJohnson]

FWIW, the common ideas between the two are:

1. The motor should not have a path to interject mechanical or electrical noise into the audio path. To accomplish this, Clearaudio’s only path from motors to audio side is through the belts. Linn also has the belt path, but there is also the spring and grommet path. Linn has tuned this to block energy transfer in the audio range.

2. The platter and arm must be fixed so that their relative location is extremely precise and invariant. Clearaudio dedicates a heavy three column structure to support the platter and mount one, two, or three arms. Linn uses the subchassis … you can buy different levels of precision and invariance. The subchassis has the fixings for the bearing and one arm board. At the highest level, the single arm board is an integral part of the subchassis.

3. The base must be perfectly level. Neither one will be good if proper care isn’t taken to assure a level base. In the case of Linn, they recommend that the base not have low frequency resonances.

4. Anti skate is important. Linn have engineered a dial adjustment tied to your tracking force adjustment. Clearaudio has cleverly used linear tracking arms to make anti skate a non issue.

[AnotherJohnson]

And … why do I not gush about how much better vinyl is than streaming or CD? Those who have been here for more than a few years know that I used to be very negative about streaming.

At this point, with a lot of work and help from others, my streaming is incredibly good. And my CD/SACD playback has always been decent, but is better now than ever.

I honestly think that in my system vinyl, streaming, and disk are all on an equal footing from an SQ perspective. In order of convenience, Roon/Qobuz/Prime have to be tops, followed by BluOS and Mosaic. In other words, streaming is the easiest source. CD/SACD next. Then vinyl. Vinyl is the most interactive and nostalgic fun.