GAT1 versus GAT2

[AnotherJohnson]

I hear this “violins don’t sound like wood” or “the instruments sound like steel” or “piano doesn’t sound right” frequently.

I also listen to the live instruments a lot. Instrument sounds are all over a wide spectrum, strongly affected first by the player, then by the instrument itself, then by my seat, and finally by the hall’s acoustics and the venue’s ambience.

Even so, I have never had trouble identifying a violin OR speculating that it was made from steel. I can tell you about maple and spruce, tap tuning of tops, glues, etc. I can tell you about carbon fiber as a violin material. I can tell you about strings, bows, and electric amplification.

But I can’t tell you anything about steel violins. Maybe they sound like a bowed steel saw? I can tell you about that since it is something I’ve heard.

I honestly think that more than 90% of what’s good about instrument sound comes from the hands, or lips, and heart of the artist. Nevertheless, we all like what we like and hear what we hear. A system has to please its owner.

In any event, I’m looking forward hearing about the resolution of your crackling project.

[AnotherJohnson]

This is what bowed steel sounds like.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_contin ... th=NzY3NTg


This is the gateway to lessons on playing bowed steel.

Perhaps the sound is what people who say the “violins sound metallic”. I dunno …

I have a recording of the same violinist playing 12 different Stradivari. They vary quite a bit.

And I’m sure many have heard children on their 1/2 size Suzuki class violins.

[Joe Appierto]

It sounds almost like an acoustic theremin with a bit of Jew's harp as well.

[AnotherJohnson]

Now on to carbon fiber … three different models. Listen to the tone. Is it wood? Is it metal? Is it carbon fiber?

https://www.google.com/search?q=carbon+ ... DJszg,st:0

And the 12 Stradivari

https://www.google.com/search?q=12+stra ... ent=safari

Can you hear the differences?

[AnotherJohnson]

Now if you’re willing to go to Titanium instead of steel, here’s your choice.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yY64g0gOlUY

The Titanium violin is only $100k. Think how much it would cost if Stradivari had had a metal shop!


Note that real musicians are pretty open minded about sound. Music is not just sound. And all sounds could be used creatively by the right musician.

[admin]

Cool stuff. Amazing how classic instruments can be changed with modern materials and manufacturing processes to change their character and sound. I wonder what Mozart would have thought?

[AnotherJohnson]

Cool stuff. Amazing how classic instruments can be changed with modern materials and manufacturing processes to change their character and sound. I wonder what Mozart would have thought?

He would have thought “How can I use this new instrument to stir the soul of the listeners and please my patron?”

If the answer was “You really can’t.” then he would have left it out.

[AnotherJohnson]

The theremin for those unfamiliar.

https://blog.minicircuits.com/capacitan ... tions%20in,)%20and%20volume%20(amplitude).

Note the fact that the circuit changes that change the sound do not involve physical touching.

Wikipedia says the theremin was invented in 1928.
I think people were playing the musical saw before that date.

Here’s a history for musical saw.

https://digitalcommons.bard.edu/cgi/vie ... proj_s2016

[Joe Appierto]

Here's a reference to the musical saw dating at least as early as 1900:
"The musical saw became popular thanks to circus and variety-theatre artists from 1900 onwards."

https://www.thomasbloch.net/en_musical-saw.html

I haven't checked the Jew's harp but I'd bet it dates back to the 19th Century if not earlier.

[AnotherJohnson]

This study traces the Jews Harp to the time of the Greek and Roman Empires. But it also suggests that the instrument was also known in Asia. Of course at the time of the Greek and Roman empires, Asia was what we call Turkey.

No symphonies utilized the Jews Harp or the musical saw. I guess Mozart answered admin’s question in the negative. No kazoos either. But I have heard Kazoo orchestras of children. Sibley’s Department Store in Rochester, NY sold Kazoos with trumpet and trombone shapes at Christmas. If you bought one, you could join the adult who was leading the other buyers in Christmas carols and holiday songs. That was in the 1950’s.

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/st ... /95559758/

[Joe Appierto]

In high school (1960s) we had flutophones in our musical appreciation classes. In spite of a total lack of talent on my part, a lifelong love of music did result from those classes and exposure to recorded music at home.

[paulCJ]

Cool video of playing a saw. I never saw that before, lol.
I once heard a demo of very expensive speakers driven by solid state electronics with blue meters, and music sounded fantastic until Beethoven's Violin Concerto was played, where the lead violin was just screechy and sounded very steel-like.
I have repeated this with multiple solid state pre to solid state combos (including Levinson & Parasound & PS Audio) on that and several other music pieces with violins, including several live recordings that sound great with tubes.

[paulCJ]

The crackling distortion is something that has not repeated. I have adjusted cable locations to minimize potential interaction and also performed a degauss of the equipment from the PS Audio P12. Am not certain what the reason is, but the crackling sound hasn't been back. And am just happy with the GAT feeding the 5302 amp.

[Big Dog RJ]

That sounds like a great combination Paul.

After having installed the GAT in your system, and many areas of improvement are quite apparent... plus you're very pleased with the overall performance, that's all that matters. As long as it meets your personal expectations and preferences, regardless of what reviews say.

Now just sit back and enjoy those finest tunes!
Cheers, RJ

[paulCJ]

Well, the GAT-S2 is wonderful, but, as others have mentioned here and elsewhere, the full potential will only be realized when everything else is at the same level. I borrowed a Grimm MU2 DAC. The improvement over my economical DAC is, well, night and day. I dislike using that term, but the significant step up is just undeniable. Have listened to cd's via my player now being used as a transport sending the signal via toslink (optical) to the MU2. I now can't go back to my economical DAC/cd spinner/usb all-in-one. The cleanness, openness, clarity and transparancy of the MU2 is just so unreal, and is a product that once you hear it in your system you want to buy one.

[Big Dog RJ]

Yep! That sounds about right.

Especially at this level of high performance, all other gear in the system must be on par, otherwise it's a few steps away... and will always seem to far to reach. Once you change / upgrade a preamp, and one that is really top notch, nearly everything else will require changing. Simply because every component goes through the preamp! If you didn't use a preamp and only direct to power amp, through DAC volume control then that's a different config, which might not be as critical as having a dedicated Line-stage. The sheer improvement in overall performance just shines through, there's no denying it.

Hopefully, down the line... when finances permit, you'll be able to take full advantage of the GATS2. It's a fine level of pre-amplification.
Cheers, RJ

[paulCJ]

I have tried using the MU2 as a preamp, without the GAT-S2 in the signal. While clean, is also a little bland to my ears with a Levinson 5302 amp. The GAT-S2 works nicely between the MU2 & the 5302. The clean, pure, open presentation of the MU2 works well with the clean, open, pure 5302 and the clean, open, pure, vibrant, magical, non-syrupy GAT.
I did end up with the 30+ year old Infinity Modulus sub back in the system (and Infinity control box), allowing the FR20 speakers to be located 6'-5" out from the front wall.

[admin]

The MU2 is a very nice unit and does a lot of stuff in one box. It also has a high quality relay volume control. But my experience with using dedicated sources separate from the control preamp has been similar to yours. I high quality dedicated preamp has been superior. It seems every streamer on the market now has internal volume controls but they have been subpar compared to the preamps in my system.

30+ years for a sub. That's something. Glad to hear the woofers holding up. The biggest problem I've seen when getting into 3-4 decades is the woofer material seems to dry out and crack. I've seen that on many speakers/woofers. It's not universal and I don't know what specifically causes it in some and not in others. But definitely a close inspection is a good idea.

[paulCJ]

The Infinity sub has been re-foamed. The woofer appears to still be intact. If the woofer ever breaks apart, there are Infinity drivers available online from several sources. Paul McGowan & Chris Brunhaver replaced the Infinity woofers on their IRS V speaker system and have information available on where to purchase those newer-style woofers. My bigger concern would be the crossover box, and finding a source to repair, if ever needed.

[admin]

How complex is the crossover? I've seen crossovers that have a bunch of electronics that would be next to impossible for a user to repair, like say a high end Martin Logan sub that literally connects with mobile apps for settings as well as auto room correction, etc... to something basic like the crossover in my magnepan 20.1 speaker which you can pretty much look at and follow the connections and replace the caps accordingly without even having access to a schematic.

I would probably take a look inside if you can and see what it looks like.