Introducing myself

[redstarwraith]

Hello everyone. I am new here to this group. I'm 61 years old and have been experiencing buyer's remorse over my amplification purchases. I thought I was doing my due diligence by following reviewers and reading the trade mags and - well, let's just say it's been an expensive learning process. I swore to myself my next hifi purchases would not be based on hype. To that end, I've really been attracted to Conrad Johnson for a variety of reasons. They're US made. They've got a good, long history. I don't see them flooding the market with endless advertising. They strike me as the strong, silent type that just goes about its business, not following trends and fads, and quietly kicking ass along the way (because I've never heard a bad word said about Conrad Johnson).

[admin]

First, welcome to CJO. Great to have you with us.

I think you will find that CJ makes very high quality audio gear. Being electronics, nothing is 100% guaranteed and even the highest quality components can fail with time. However, I find it amazing how many people are still running CJ gear that was made decades ago. I think that speaks highly of the overall quality of these products.

What did you end up buying?

[redstarwraith]

I've not purchased any CJ gear as yet! I was looking for some guidance in that arena. I wouldn't likely be able to afford their latest gear, but used gear from a reputable vendor (avoiding Ebay). I didn't give a lot of info about my listening situation because I didn't want to make a long post. My current system is Larsen 8.2 speakers, Audiolab 6000CDT, Peachtree GaN400 + preDAC, Rega P8 turntable with Ania cartridge, and a Rega Aria MK3 phonostage. My other amp I switch out with the Peachtree gear is a Bob Carver Crimson 275 with a line stage preamp from 10 Octave Stereo. Cables are BlueJean cables. I've had a suspicion over the past 4 years or so that none of my amplification is worthy of the P8 source or the Larsen speakers. The P8 has been the piece that's made the most difference in the improvement of my system out of anything. I'm not into streaming very much. I collect vinyl and cherish records. CDs are second.

[Paolo]

OP:
What is it about your system you’re not completely happy with?

[admin]

Cool stuff. I started my adventures in high end audio with a Rega P3 and I am a fan of BlueJeans cables. The Larsen 8.2 is a really cool, and weird speaker with that 45 degree firing angle. How loud do you play your music. The 8.2's sensitivity is middle ground at 88 db, so you should be able to get away with pretty much any amp as long as you don't play music very loud.

I think we have to ask, how much are you looking to spend? Is there a particular age that you don't want to go past?

[redstarwraith]

I like the Larsens because I don't have a true "dedicated listening room" - I listen in my living room and couldn't get speakers that I'd have to pull out into the room. As for how loud I listen - not too loud, except when the wife isn't home. Then I'll turn things up.
As for the CJ gear I was looking at - I wondered how the Premier 11a or Premier 10 matched up with one of their older preamps?

[admin]

You shouldn't have any synergy issues with a either the Premier 11/10 or with other CJ gear for that matter. Both units are solid and really some of the best gear that was released during that time period. I think the "real concern" with those units is simply age. When you start pushing 3 decades, there will be naturally aging on components. So your biggest concern is making sure that it's still functioning well.

If you could find them for a good price and have some insurance that they are working at spec, I would not hesitate. Really the question comes down to reliability of a 30+ year components.

[Big Dog RJ]

G'day Red Star, greetings from down unda, and welcome to CJO.

Another big supporter of Rega TT rigs. They're not fancy nor stupidly pricey, no major gimmicks or bling.. and they get the music right! Started with the RP3, RP6 and now using the RP8 with CJ phonostage TEA2SE Max. I was seriously considering the Michell Gyro Deck or Michell Orb but when the RP8 just delivers wonderful tunes, couldn't be bothered with anything else. Previously I did have the Aria phonostage, it's fantastic! Also allows for variable dB settings upto 70dB, which is great for low output cartridges. Matched well with the preamp's gain stage and the correct phonostage, the Rega can perform supremely!

With reference to the power amp you're thinking of, Premier 11, yes this was one of CJ's top line tube amps back then. As Admin pointed out, the Premier series is going back a few decades...
So, if you're considering this type of stereo tube power amp level, I would very highly recommend either of these:
MV60/se
Classic 60/se
Classic 62/se

The MV60 replaced the Premier 11 series, which was later replaced by the Classic 60 series. The Classic 62 is the latest model in that line up, and sometimes does show up in the used market, simply because owners are upgrading to bigger power amps. Note: the designated "se" after each of those models listed. There's the standard version which uses EL34's as Output tubes and the SE version uses either 6550's or KT120's. These are more powerful versions and can drive difficult loads with no issues.

Either version, standard or SE is still superb, it basically ends with your personal preference.
I'm thinking yore based in the US, in which case you'll be able to find the MV60/se for less than 3grand. Even a Classic 60/se can be found for less than half the price of a Classic 62se.

However, this is not the case in Aus, we have to pay top dollar for CJ gear, nearly double the price of $USD. Also the Aussie dollar is not doing too well, so highend audio is a luxury purchase. It also adds to inflation! Bloody inflation... ruins our economy.

So, instead of the Premier series, which as you can see has been surpassed by three amplifier series, look at the three models I've listed. OTOH, if there was a Premier 11 in top notch condition, where the owner has redone nearly every aspect to get the power amp to operate to full spec, only then will it be a good choice in terms of $$$ well spent.

As for the later versions, whatever you spend, you're still getting a good deal because they're just newer gear, that's all.
Cheers mate, and let us know how it goes.
RJ

[SolderSlinger]

Premier 10 is a preamp, not an amplifier.

A couple of things to note, unlike other amplifiers that followed, the difference between a MV60 and MV60SE is only the output tubes. The MV60 is EL34 based, with bias voltage factory set. The MV60SE is 6550 based, with bias voltage factory set. There are no resistor or capacitor differences between the two. I would expect the same price for both. If the owner tell's you the SE has Vishay resistors and Teflon capacitors, they are wrong.

The Classic 60SE is a great amplifier. As a true SE it has Vishay resistors and Teflon capacitors. I had this amp in the past and was impressed right from the start. The input tube is a 6189 (12AU7) which is also used in ARTsa. The ART mono uses an m8080 input tube which is a single triode 12AU7. The Classic 60SE is a very musical amplifier. One of my favorite CJ amps. Even more so when taking the used price into account.

Two amplifiers not listed in the same power level are the LP66S2, and the LP70S. I have not heard the LP66S2, but because it has a 6189 input tube would think it sounds good too. Only real question with the LP66S2 is does it have Teflon caps or not. I found one in Canada that I wanted to buy about 3 years ago. Seller said it has Teflon capacitors, Jeff at CJ said no. I did not buy the amp.

My list is
Classic 60SE
LP70S

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes great points by SS.

In fact, I totally forgot about the LP66S and LP70S.

Correct info regarding the LP66s, it doesn't have any Teflons nor Vishays. However, the LP70S is a step above. Since the OP was considering the Premier 11 and similar line up, the most recent replacement to the Premier 11 was the MV60SE. Although the MV60SE replaced both the Prem11A and MV55, I sincerely don't think it surpassed the performance of the Premier 11 series.

Either of those should be a good match, compared to the LP70S being a top unit. The Classic 60se would be fantastic but only if the right price/deal was offered. Another thing is, most owners of these power amps really don't want to sell them, so they become keepers in the storeroom, and show themselves only on special occasions. Really great gear during that time.

Hope the OP finds something good to suit his needs. Since these aren't big tube monoblocks, tube maintenance will also be relatively manageable, not too shabby.

Cheers, RJ

[redstarwraith]

Admin, Big Dog, and Solder Slinger,
Thank you so much for your input and acumen regarding the Conrad Johnson lines. You've given me much to think about and I am grateful. Do you guys have "all CJ systems": amp + pre-amp + CD transport + Dac/phonostage or are you mixing things up? In other words, how is the synergy with CJ gear?

[admin]

The newer lines are CJ is only Preamp/Amps. So the days of buying a CJ CD player or DAC are long gone. I did own one of their DACs for a time but the issue is that the technology develops so quickly in the digital realm that a DAC from 20 years ago is not going to compete with modern offerings. For analog audio there is a much longer lifespan. Not to suggest analog hasn't advanced, it very much has, but a DAC from 30 years ago simply won't be able to play hi-res audio or have a usb connector.

I have two systems myself. The main system with a CJ ET7s2 and ART monoblock amps. And my "budget" system with a CJ PV-14L and MV-55. I love both. But I don't think I have to tell you which sounds better. The synergy of utilizing CJ components makes things easy,.. but I wouldn't say you couldn't mix brands.

[Big Dog RJ]

Yep that's a definite!

Currently using a full array of CJ gear from pre- power- phono-preamp, and it has outstanding synergy! The only different gear is the digital playback system, which is Esoteric. What I've found over the years is to partner CJ gear with the best possible or at least similar quality on par. If you choose something of less quality along entry level lines then the CJ gear doesn't quite shine as much. It may seem bit silly to spend such high amounts on component matching but it really makes a difference, and that difference is not marginal.

On the same level of performance and top quality, CJ gear also deserves the finest choice in speakers. Get mediocre ones and it's not doing justice. However, connect your fine CJ SS or tube gear with high performance / high quality speakers, and you'll get a high performance sound! Simple as that. Once you've found the right match up of a Pre-power combination to suit your speakers and particular room, it's not necessary to spend overboard into 6 figures to achieve a high quality sound. That type of spend is for the high money rollers... the big boys with the big toys. Even at that level, some of them can't quite get there, always changing gear every year or so. Chasing the next best thing. It doesn't exist!

So, as I said you can certainly match CJ gear with other gear, no doubt but the other gear must be on par in terns of quality standards and overall performance. The only issue that I've come across is that most others offer XLR connections. With CJ they simply don't use XLR, only SE, hence certain types of gear cannot be used in conjunction with CJ. Two such examples are Burmester and Gryphon, which I've tried both. No good with CJ.
However, where SE is offered, VTL, Manley, Dartzeel, Vitus, Pass Labs, VAC and Lamm Audio, the SE option is superb!

Just keep connectivity in mind, along with gain structure and output settings when matching either gear, from preamps to power amps and phonostages. The gain structure is most important Including the cartridge!

Cheers mate, RJ