Suggestions on a preamp for CJ 2275SE amp?

[retroactiv]

Looking for advice on which preamps out there match well with CJ 2275SE solid state amp.
I do like the CJ tube sound, but would be interested in any recommendations for ss or tube preamp, even if not CJ.
I do need low volume to work well.
My budget is only up to $1500 max, hopefully lower. Used is fine.

[admin]

Lots of really good choices in that price range and of course there is no "right or wrong" answer. One consideration would perhaps be a CJ ET3. That's right around that price (if you find a bargain). Maybe a CA150 could be had for a little cheaper if the ET3 is out of budget.

The reason I mention those two, beyond the obvious of both being made by CJ, is that they are in a similar price range (although maybe pushing it a bit) and it's roughly the same generation as the 2275SE. I think it would guarantee synergy.

[retroactiv]

Thanks!

[AnotherJohnson]

The ET3 has nearly as much gain as the Classic 2.

I agree with RJ in the other thread you started. I already suggested a PV11. He’s added the PV12 and several others.

https://www.conradjohnsonowners.com/vie ... 940#p25940

Regarding the CA150, I owned one and I do not remember it having a “pre out” “main in” pair, so it is not a candidate to use with any amp.

[retroactiv]

Thanks AnotherJohnson. I'm thinking about getting a CA150 and forget having to buy a preamp since the CA150 is an integrated control amp. I wonder how it sounds compared to the 2275SE with preamp.

[AnotherJohnson]

I’ve owned both. The amp section of the CA150 is similar to the 2275, but it’s not the SE. CJ does not have the parts to upgrade the CA150 to SE status.

I know this because they told me they could do the job in a two week turnaround. After three weeks I jacked them up. They apologized and offered to do a general cap upgrade (they had the caps, but not the other parts). I said no and ate $200 in round trip shipping. They should have paid the shipping since they’d agreed to do the work before I shipped it to them.

When the CA150 came back, it looked like they’d figured out the shortage after starting the job. And it had a new transformer buzz.

I massaged the buzz out and sold the unit.

I liked the 2275 SE much better than the CA150.

FWIW, CJ’s current policy is that the solid state stuff isn’t much loved.

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes, I recall this episode on AJ's CA150... it didn't end too well. If it was the usual crew back then, LJ & Ed, the service and customer support would have been tops! Unfortunately, there's a new ownership and things are quite different now. In fact very very different.

As pointed out, CJ is heading towards all tube designs, the last of the SS mohicans were the MF2550 series, and that sadly ended few years ago. So their main focus is tooobs.

Although the ET3 series may have a fairly high gain, there are certain amplifiers that can match well on low volume settings. I had a successful combination on the MV60SE, Classic 60SE and Classic 62SE. So maybe you should do a home trial on the ET3, if possible. Only then you can be sure, as sometimes it's hard just to go off specs. Actual demos are the ultimate test.

Whatever preamps you come across, let us know and our CJO members can offer individual advice, which will lead to you making a better informed decision.
Take your time, no rush.

Cheers, RJ

[retroactiv]

Just saw a Conrad Johnson, PV10A come up for sale for $1300. What do you guys think of that one? I'm not sure about getting such an old device.

[Joe Appierto]

I owned a PV10AL which I purchased around 1994 and later (1998) had converted to a 10A by the late Bill Thalmann at Music Technology. For the time it was a nice sounding unit with the typical CJ sound for that time period. It wasn't the last word in detail but did portray a smooth and pleasant sound with a very good soundstage.

As you point out, the unit up for sale is most likely about the same age, maybe a bit younger but unless things like caps have been replaced, some repair work may be on the horizon.

Also, $1,300 seems on the high side to me. I believe the 10A originally retailed for $995. Here's a June, 1993 Stereophile review of the 10A by Corey Greenberg which besides being somewhat humorous also was accurate in my opinion as to how the preamp sounded.

https://www.stereophile.com/tubepreamps/790/index.html

Just for comparison purposes there is a 10A currently for sale on eBay that looks to be cosmetically in excellent shape and is listed for $975.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/256402327959?m ... 3931366338

[tonye]

A PV10 for $1300 is way OVERPRiCED. The seller is fishing for fools.

I got the PV9, with phono stage, which is a much better preamp. At the time, the pV9 was 3200 bucks. Over the years i've added the full Teflon cap job and complete restoration from the Factory ( by Ed himself ). The diodes and caps in the power supply tend to go... so I had the power supply fully rebuilt. The volume and balance switches also get noisy so they got to be cleaned up.

A PV10, unrestored, with new tubes... I myself would offer$800 maximum. It has no SE (teflon cap) upgrade so pretty much you get a nice preamp but colored.

Now, for a vintage component, I'd pay 1000 for a base PV9 instead of one of them Marantz 2240 receivers.... I might pay $2000 if it had the Teflon caps and new factory source Svetlanas. That's because the upgrades make the old preamp sound much newer.

Remember, you're getting a pretty good sounding phono stage, if you got an MC cartridge.

To give you an idea... last year I overpaid for an ET3 line stage.... I paid 1700 including shipping. I saw a couple going for 1500. (I knew I was overpaying somewhat, but it was not too bad). Immediately after buying it I shipped it to the factory and did the SE upgrade... I paid through the nose for that... but the ET3 by itself sounded very good.

[retroactiv]

Think I might just look for a CA150 SE and then not have to deal with preamp.

[AnotherJohnson]

Think I might just look for a CA150 SE and then not have to deal with preamp.

They’re very rare. I’ve seen one once.

The story of their origin was shared with me directly by a high muckity muck at CJ.

Ralph Spear, now retired former founder/owner of the no longer in existence Spearit Sound, was an incredible CJ dealer. He had huge inventory, and he was willing to loan you just about any model for home trial, even if it meant shipping the gear across country.

McCormack was still partnered with CJ for solid state design and manufacturing.

Ralph asked for the CA150 design … he thought he could sell the them.

CJ batch builds. They buy the parts required and a small surplus for later repairs or upgrades.

Ralph ordered the whole batch of CA150s. I was told the exact number, but I don’t remember it. My recollection is that it was either 100 or 150. The SE exquisite parts models were harder to sell at initial retail because people are often “special parts” atheists, at least in those days … so only 10% of the total were built as SE units. (I do remember the 10% figure accurately). And, as CJ and I simultaneously and sadly discovered, they did not buy very many of the SE parts sets beyond what was needed for the first batch. They use the fancy caps on other models, but the Vishay resistor sets are product specific. I asked when they would have more. The answer was that they would not. I was told that they were only available in multiple unit lots, and that they had no need to have a stock of expensive resistors that would never get used.

On a different note, I read the reviews that Joe linked. I have never been a fan of the PV10 series. Even Sam Tellig was unwilling to recommend it 20 years ago, and that was for a new one. I would hold out for an 11 or 12, or the Premier contemporary.

And, as Joe noted, any unit that is 20+ years old and hasn’t had a recap ought to be checked. The electrolytic caps are long overdue… and the polymer caps, with the exception of Teflon, are butting up against their natural failure rate too.

Or consider some other product line. Sell the 2275 and pick up a used Marantz integrated like the PM-KI Ruby.

Or try to find a used CAV45s2.

[AnotherJohnson]

Just for comparison purposes there is a 10A currently for sale on eBay that looks to be cosmetically in excellent shape and is listed for $975.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/256402327959?m ... 3931366338

I would be leery of this. I’d have to ask a lot of questions before buying from this seller.

The description says it’s made in the UK. So he doesn’t even read his own pictures.


Maybe it’s a deal. I guess it’s cheap enough to take a risk.

[Joe Appierto]

True, eBay is often a crap shoot and due diligence is required on the buyer's part. Good catch, AJ, I didn't even notice the discrepancy in where the seller says it was made especially in that as far as I know CJ's models have always been made in Virginia. Even with the seller's 100% feedback and 2,000+ ratings points it should give a potential buyer pause.

[AnotherJohnson]

True, eBay is often a crap shoot and due diligence is required on the buyer's part. Good catch, AJ, I didn't even notice the discrepancy in where the seller says it was made especially in that as far as I know CJ's models have always been made in Virginia. Even with the seller's 100% feedback and 2,000+ ratings points it should give a potential buyer pause.

I looked at the seller. It looks like the seller is a general estate sale and consigning shop. So they handle a lot of stuff that they’ve never personally had interest in, and they do it in a hurry.

It’s probably a good deal for what it is. Great eye Joe, to find it and point it out!

[Big Dog RJ]

Definitely not! $1300 for a PV10 is way overkill!

I had two versions, the last one being the PV10AL, bought for just $900 and sold for $990. Note: this is in $AUD not USD... so $900 AUD is only about $600 US!

$1300 should be the price range for a used ET3 series, definitely not a pv10. Even a PV15 would be less. What's happening here is those particular sellers are price gouging, simply because CJ doesn't make such classic preamps anymore. So these guys have priced vintage gear just under the ridiculous mark knowing that if you're after any of CJ's latest gear, you'll need to spend a fortune!

BTW, there are other well know makes that are equally outstanding, Manley Labs, ARC, VTL, Jadis and McIntosh. They all make tube gear, just need to find the right one to match with your CJ SS amplifier.

Cheers, RJ

[admin]

As others mentioned, $1300 is too much for a PV10. I think you could get a PV-12 for that price if you are looking at units from that era. PV-12's also come on the market more often in my experience. I owned one myself and it offers a lot of bang for your buck in my opinion.

[retroactiv]

So, I don't own a 2275SE. I am able to buy one for $2100 from someone willing to sell his, but I don't think I'm going to buy it after all.
I'm starting to consider looking into other brands too.
I own and love my CJ CAV45 S2 and Cayin el84 tube amps, but I kind of wanted to see if there are any solid state amps out there that I'd like enough to use during the working week and preserve my tubes for more focused listening time. So far I haven't liked any solid state amps compared to tubes, but I also haven't tried any in the $2k+ range either.
I don't really want an ss amp with tube preamp because I'd like to have an all ss setup for the work week. And I'd prefer integrated.
Several friends tell me Luxman and Accuphase integrated ss amps are great, but the models they recommend are $5k minimum used and that's more than I want to spend, especially when I don't think even those will sound as good as tubes.
Also nice to have a ss setup for times like now when I have a bad tube in each of my tube amps and I'm waiting for replacements to arrive.

[admin]

If you are looking for a "work horse" that does "everything", solid state, that you can just run 8 hours a day every day and not worry, and with a budget of $1500,.... take a look at: https://www.schiit.com/products/ragnarok-1 You can get the version with a built in DAC if you plan to use digital sources.

I think it checks off all the boxes. I've used Schiit gear at work for this very reason,... It offers great sound (for the price), very functional, made in the US, a good warranty/return policy, and at price points which are almost unheard of in the audio world.

Now I have to tell you that it won't sound like a high end CJ setup, but it will also have 1/10th the cost and hassle.

[AnotherJohnson]

So, I don't own a 2275SE. I am able to buy one for $2100 from someone willing to sell his, but I don't think I'm going to buy it after all.

$2100 is way too much for a 2275SE too. Ralph Spear was selling them NOS for less than $1500 on USAudiomart years after Spearit Sound closed up shop. And people aren’t chasing them at this point.

Replacing tube gear with solid state that will sound good at these points is hard. In my experience, used recent model Marantz has been a good choice at this target price point.