ET3 On The Way...

[Paolo]

As much as I've been enjoying my recently-acquired PV5, I decided that I wanted a remote controlled preamp after all. Not so much out of "laziness" but because a lot of the music I listen to has sudden crescendos which can be upsetting to my wife with the golden ears. Another factor is that the ET3 line preamp requires but one tube. I'm planning on keeping the MV55, at least for the near future.

I'd like to publicly thank Deja Vu Audio in Vienna, VA - a superb dealer who has been a joy to work with.

[AnotherJohnson]

Great step up. I owned both. I think you will enjoy the upgrade. Congratulations!

[Paolo]

Great step up. I owned both. I think you will enjoy the upgrade. Congratulations!

Thank you sir. I appreciate the support and knowledge I've found on this forum.

[admin]

Very nice. You won't be disappointed.

You can also build a 2nd mini-system. That's what I have my MV-55 currently in.

[Paolo]

Thanks Mr. Admin. I'm going to concentrate on rebuilding a single system with a pair of Guarneri Homage and REL T5X. The best sound we've had in our home was when I was using MFA separates. After decades, I decided to sell them due to ongoing maintenance issues and my desire to scale down. After a fair amount of experimentation over the past couple of years, I feel that CJ is a good choice for us.

[admin]

Sounds like a good plan. I've always been a "one system guy" until recently when I was able to acquire an MV-55 and PV-14L together at a ridiculously low price. I would rather have one really good system than two "pretty good" systems. Getting both units together at a bargain price was a one off.
That's what made me bite the bullet as I was able to build a small 2nd system and only needed some bookshelf speakers. If the deal on the two units didn't come together it would not have happened.

[mstrshikadance]

Sorry to hijack this thread!

I have an ET3SE and when paired with a Premier11 and highly efficient speakers, even with the Pre-amp at 1 or 2, it's still quite high volume.

Is there a low gain equivalent of the 6922 tube that I can use?

Currently have a new Gold Lion which sounds fantastic.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

[tonye]

What do you mean preamp at "1 or 2"...

You mean the ET3SE display at "1" or "2"?

The gain of the Premier 11 is 25.7 db, that's almost a 20 time gain on input to output.

The gain of the ET3SE line stage is 25db as well.... so you got a maximum system gain of 400x (in volts) from source input to speaker output.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/con ... asurements
https://conradjohnson.com/et3et3se-vacu ... mplifiers/
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-gainloss.htm
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator ... cation.htm

I looked on the Internet to see a measurement that maps the numeric value of the front panel to the actual gain of the preamp. I assume it's a logarithm factor, not linear... but let's just assume it's being run at unity gain... What will the power be at the output of the amp with a full 2V line signal?

A 2V input at the preamp line state input, at unity gain of the pre amp will give you 40V output at the speakers... hmm.. P = V^2 / R, for an 8 ohm speaker...

P = ( 40V^2 / 8ohm ) = 200 Wdc... I think being RMS, we need to divide this by SQR(2).. it's Prms = 200Wdc / 1.414 = 141 Wrms....

Hmm.. can the amp even drive that much power? I figure the preamp has to be able to cut down on the gain... hmm... anyhow...

what is the efficiency of your speakers?
what kind of a line source are you using?

I'm driving the ET#SE into a clone FW SIT3. Gain of the amp is 11.5db. I can run the preamp at a comfortable 35 with the FM tuner as background... and cranking at 70 ( amp can only put out 24 wpc into 6 ohms ). Speakers are 90db/W efficient.

https://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/prod_sit3_man.pdf

So, perhaps you got a mistmatch in your system? Or your source is simply too LOUD?

Can you control the volume level of the source?

I would NOT recommend changing the vacuum tube in the preamp.

[tonye]

@paolo.... if you plan on keeping the ET3, i STRONGLY recommend the SE upgrade.

Besides, you get to have fun with Jasmine.

[Paolo]

@paolo.... if you plan on keeping the ET3, i STRONGLY recommend the SE upgrade.

Besides, you get to have fun with Jasmine.

@tonye,
aahhh you devil you.

My system is in flux. The MV55 started to red-plate. I lost one KT-77 and a couple of vintage EL34s. I sent the amp back. I am truly done with vintage electronics of any persuasion. Lesson Learned. At the moment I'm without tube gear but am working on rectifying that dismal state of affairs.

[Joe Appierto]

I looked on the Internet to see a measurement that maps the numeric value of the front panel to the actual gain of the preamp. I assume it's a logarithm factor, not linear... but let's just assume it's being run at unity gain... What will the power be at the output of the amp with a full 2V line signal?

The CJ preamps having 100 steps are 0.67dB per step (usually shown in print rounded to 0.7dB). Unity gain occurs between 66 and 67 on the display. Don't know if this is relevant but thought I'd throw that out there.

EDIT: I believe the 66 to 67 figure was for the 16LS preamp. In a Stereophile review of the ACT2, the unity gain figure for that preamp was 76 so pretty much forget about what I said.

[Big Dog RJ]

@paolo.... if you plan on keeping the ET3, i STRONGLY recommend the SE upgrade.

Besides, you get to have fun with Jasmine.

that certainly hit it out of the park dog!
Woof! RJ

[Big Dog RJ]

Looks like a major mis-match between line in from source to preamp... between preamp to power amp that shouldn't be an issue. One of the sources is putting out very high voltage, sensitivity ratings are so high that it's causing M-dance's high efficiency speakers to reproduce very high levels! He's stated that his speakers are very high efficiency, I wonder how high...? Maybe over 110dB?

Either the source gear or speakers need evaluating.
Just my 50cts
RJ

[admin]

Looks like a major mis-match between line in from source to preamp... between preamp to power amp that shouldn't be an issue. One of the sources is putting out very high voltage, sensitivity ratings are so high that it's causing M-dance's high efficiency speakers to reproduce very high levels! He's stated that his speakers are very high efficiency, I wonder how high...? Maybe over 110dB?

Either the source gear or speakers need evaluating.
Just my 50cts
RJ

If the volume setting on near lowest is that loud, I agree, there is something funny going on. Something has a massive mismatch and probably the easiest way to determine that is to try and swap components.

[mstrshikadance]

Looks like a major mis-match between line in from source to preamp... between preamp to power amp that shouldn't be an issue. One of the sources is putting out very high voltage, sensitivity ratings are so high that it's causing M-dance's high efficiency speakers to reproduce very high levels! He's stated that his speakers are very high efficiency, I wonder how high...? Maybe over 110dB?

Either the source gear or speakers need evaluating.
Just my 50cts
RJ

They are Zu Soul VI which ar 100 db efficient.

I thought it might be the source, but it is not dependent on the source. When using either my streamer or Phono/Turntable, at 1 out of 100 on the pre-amp volume setting, it is still incredibly loud.

[mstrshikadance]

Looks like a major mis-match between line in from source to preamp... between preamp to power amp that shouldn't be an issue. One of the sources is putting out very high voltage, sensitivity ratings are so high that it's causing M-dance's high efficiency speakers to reproduce very high levels! He's stated that his speakers are very high efficiency, I wonder how high...? Maybe over 110dB?

Either the source gear or speakers need evaluating.
Just my 50cts
RJ

If the volume setting on near lowest is that loud, I agree, there is something funny going on. Something has a massive mismatch and probably the easiest way to determine that is to try and swap components.

At this stage, my thoughts are that this system doesn't work well together.

Speakers are too efficient for the amount of combined gain from Premier 11 and ET3-SE.

I have ordered some Rothwell Attenuators -10db to see how that goes.

Unless anyone has any other recommendations.

[admin]

Try the attenuators. 100 db sensitivity is really up there for speakers. That may be the problem.

I have a pair of Martin Logan 35Xti speakers (92 db) matched with a CJ PV-14L and MV-55. I've noticed that on some poorly mastered music where the it was mastered too loud, the volume is fairly high even at the lowest volume setting. Not too loud to listen to but certainly not "low volume listening." But I could see how it would be too loud if my speakers were even more sensitive.

[Big Dog RJ]

Ah! 100dB efficiency on the Zu speakers... there you go!

Those speakers are more suited with SET power amps, which put out a handful of watts, anything between 8 to 12w is more than plenty!

The Prem11 puts out way more than that, and combined with the ET3SE, that's far too much gain- load mismatch.

Those Zu speakers with such high efficiency is pretty much horn territory. My beloved Avant Garde Duo XD's come to mind, with 110dB made the CAV45 sound like a 1000w!

Beautiful gear btw, hope you finally get it sorted.
Cheers, RJ

[mstrshikadance]

Thank you all for the feedback.

I have placed a passive volume control between the Pre and power amp with great success so for. I can;t tell if the sound sounds veiled, but it might just be due to the ability to listen at lower volumes that without it.

I have multiple attenuators on the way and will report back with my findings.

(now I am looking at lower WPC/gain CJ options....)

[admin]

Definitely play around with them if you have different attenuator options. Having the volume in an ideal listening level should also add to your perception of detail in audio. If music is too loud, you are limiting your perceptible dynamic range of hearing.