Sanders Sound System ???

[AnotherJohnson]

This is the first I’ve seen or heard of anything from Sanders.

https://tmraudio.com/components/power-a ... mplifiers/

If it’s not an advanced Martin Logan post retirement knock off, there are some monkey’s uncles consigning gear to TMR. Has anyone run across these?

http://sanderssoundsystems.com/

This says they’re from Roger Sanders. Is he related to Gayle?

[AnotherJohnson]

OK. I remember him now. Someone trotted out his white paper which argues that single ended is better than balanced.

If you buy into this, check his white paper on why transistors are much better than tubes.

I think there’s a lid for every pot, and there’s a reason I’ve never seen his gear reviewed in 50 years of reading the magazines. Maybe it’s the greatest thing since sliced bread. Looks nicely made. But it sure seems like a Martin Logan knockoff.

[Joe Appierto]

From a review of Roger Sanders' Eros loudspeakers by Larry Greenhill about 20 years ago:

"I was trading e-mails with Roger Sanders, manufacturer of the Eros Mk.III electrostatic (ESL) loudspeakers, when it occurred to me to ask him about his name. I was struck that he had the same last name as Gayle Sanders, president of another American electrostatic speaker company, MartinLogan. Were they related? "No," replied Roger Sanders, "it's simply a coincidence that we have similar names. I've never even met him."

His Magtech amplifier has been on The Absolute Sound equipment listing as something to investigate especially if you own ESL for at least 10 years.

His current speaker + amplification system has been positively reviewed from those articles that I've read. I heard it a number of years ago at the NY Audio Show and thought they were pretty good.

Back in the day I had a number of phone conversations with him. He was quite approachable, definitely opinionated but always willing to talk. I bought some of his interconnects and speaker cables which if I remember right were Mogami. Okay but nothing to write home about.

[AnotherJohnson]

From a review of Roger Sanders' Eros loudspeakers by Larry Greenhill about 20 years ago:

"I was trading e-mails with Roger Sanders, manufacturer of the Eros Mk.III electrostatic (ESL) loudspeakers, when it occurred to me to ask him about his name. I was struck that he had the same last name as Gayle Sanders, president of another American electrostatic speaker company, MartinLogan. Were they related? "No," replied Roger Sanders, "it's simply a coincidence that we have similar names. I've never even met him."

His Magtech amplifier has been on The Absolute Sound equipment listing as something to investigate especially if you own ESL for at least 10 years.

His current speaker + amplification system has been positively reviewed from those articles that I've read. I heard it a number of years ago at the NY Audio Show and thought they were pretty good.

Back in the day I had a number of phone conversations with him. He was quite approachable, definitely opinionated but always willing to talk. I bought some of his interconnects and speaker cables which if I remember right were Mogami. Okay but nothing to write home about.

Joe, you’ve got a great memory! Thanks for sharing the info.

I guess it’s coincidence that their names match … Another Sanders, or maybe The Other Sanders.

The obvious similarities with the ML and Eikon product lines are probably coincidence too. Admittedly there aren’t a lot of alternative configurations and electro-statics have to share some geometric features of necessity.

Of course he’s been at it for 40 years according to his website. He must have a side hustle OR a long enough list of customers to keep busy. Boutique luthiers and boutique gun builders stay busy even if they’re not generally known. Maybe this is the same.

[AnotherJohnson]

Proof positive that I’m not paying attention.

https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articl ... udspeaker/

I stand (actually I’m sitting) corrected.

Well, they look pretty. Must sound good too.

Who’s got a pair?

[admin]

I've seen these before but never had the opportunity to listen The first thing that I thought was that "these look like some martin logan speakers that I can't place to an exact model." Then find out it's a different company.

As a planar guy, definitely interested. The price tag is obviously pretty high and I would be interested in how it performs compared to more established planar brands.

[Joe Appierto]

A telltale difference between the ML speakers and the Sanders is that the ML have a 30° curved electrostaic panel while the Sanders are flat.

Admittedly $20k is not an insignificant amount but when you consider that includes the speakers + 1 Magtech amp + the LMS electronics maybe not such a high price to pay.

I wish I remember better how the system sounded but it was a while ago. Maybe one of our members has a more recent/better recollection.

[AnotherJohnson]

The retail that TMR cites is over $27k.

Still, considering what you get, if it truly does sound great, that asking price is not out of line.

Honestly, this guy is playing to a very small niche market. In his 40 years of building, I’ve never met or communicated anyone who’s owned one.

[Joe Appierto]

I was going off the $20k price on his website which needs to be updated obviously. I do not remember it as sounding great -- good, maybe very good but not great. On the other hand this was at an audio show and not a dealer

EDIT: Okay, I see why the price difference. The base price for the system is $20k and that includes only 1 amp. The system listed on TMR has two amps and they're $7k each hence the $27k price listed.

[AnotherJohnson]

If you read the TAS review from 2017 in post #5, you can sell whatever you’re using and buy this system. At least that’s how I read Robert Greene’s advice. This guy has solved all the problems of the other brands and there’s no need to look further. Gee … it’s nearly 6 years later. I wonder if this has taken over as the TAS reference system.

“But if you wanted to call the Sanders 10e the best speaker ever, you could definitely make a case. Within the category of speakers that emphasize facsimile reproduction of the direct arrival, the Sanders system can surely claim to be the equal of any and far superior to most. And when you consider that even if you buy two Sanders Magtech amplifiers—one comes along as part of the $17,000 package—the total cost exclusive of source components is $22,500, and that you can adjust the speaker to suit your room and your tastes, this system seems to me to be not only a wonder but also a bargain.” - Robert Greene

Gosh, equal to any and superior to most!

[Joe Appierto]

Agree with you, AJ. I only skimmed the review but I thought the concluding remarks were over the top and too effusive as well.

The speaker systems at the NY Audio Show where I heard the Sanders system that I enjoyed the most were KEF (their Blade and even the little LS50), TAD (Model 1?) and Zellaton (their Stages Mk2 model maybe).

[Big Dog RJ]

Oh yeah these stats by R Sanders.

It was quite a while when I initially heard these with Krells way back in Chicago land during my under-grad years. The name was called, Inner Sound. Pretty good I must say but that's comparing to ML's older SL series Stats, plus the smaller Aries. ML made much bigger stats after, the mighty Monoliths and Statements, so it would be an unfair comparison, although the Sanders stats could play really loud. That was the key point advantage in his designs, so unlike Quad ESL's which would either arc or simply shut down when over-driven... but not the Sanders stats.

After a decade or so, he then reintroduce his stats under his own name, and offered a few amplifier options that were all SS in design including preamp. Only after I arrived in Aus, I had the opportunity of listening to his latest 10 series models driven by the Magtec monoblocks and the matching preamp with cross-over. It was pretty darn good but it didn't quite have the slightly wider dispersion pattern of ML's curved panel. The CLS (curvilinear line source) was a remarkable achievement.

Sanders stats would tend to beam directly like large flash lights, depth was ok and loudness was quite good. However, when directly compared to ML's Reseve line and now their latest Masterpiece series, the ML's are a few notches above. Especially the CLX's and Statements Evo-II's are completely on a different level. There's no comparison.

One other panel-hybrid model that was introduced around late 2011/12.. I had the pleasure of listening to was GT Audio works. Now this was quite unusual, it was a ribbon panel matched with dynamic drivers, similar to the ML hybrids but using panel ribbons instead of electrostats. And they could play really loud! So loud, that you'd think there was a thunderstorm! Talk about recreating the live event, Greg Takesh (stands for GT) really takes his hybrid panel designs seriously. He's also one of those chaps who's very humble, no fuss no muss, and will fully refund your money if you don't like his speakers. Very very rarely do his speakers ever get returned and there's not much marketing done either, Greg says he doesn't need it!

So comparing the three just for fun, I would rank them as:
GT Audio Works
ML and Sound Lab
Diptyque
Audio Analysis
Sanders stats
Quads

Of course based on the above, Alsyvox takes the podium but I didn't list it because their price range is off the charts and so is Clarisys. Both these types of panels are all 6 figure price points, so forget it.

The advantage of Sanders stats is that Roger includes one of his Magtec amps as a package or can cater a custom design around his monoblocks, and his service & tech support is excellent! This many others don't quite live up to or their service has been inconsistent... which makes people look elsewhere.

Check out GT Audio Works and you'll be surprised at the quality of his designs, all hand made to order. Superb stuff!

Cheers, RJ

[Joe Appierto]

Thank you for filling so many of the blank spots in the story and tying in the other brands. So informative!