Burmester 911 mk3 and CJ inverting Preamps

[AnotherJohnson]

I wish Spearit Sound still existed. They would send you high end CJ for in home trials. I would love to be able to compare the ART 88 and ART108As, but to be fair I’d have to buy or rent or borrow a single ended set of proper interconnects.

The 088 is at my local depot with a scheduled delivery this afternoon.

[AnotherJohnson]

The 088 arrived safely. I have it in the system now and am playing some familiar albums to warm things up while I read the manual. It is too early to judge anything except that it is very versatile, which also means it is quite complex.

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The preamp has two gains. The Burmester amps are quite sensitive so there is the default setting of +5 dB. But it can be set to +21 for less sensitive amps. The volume increments can be chosen in Burmester units or in dB. I think there are 60 divisions.

You can set the input sensitivity on every input from -6 dB to +12 dB. The default is 0.

It senses inversions and an LED lights if you need to invert to take care of an odd number. There is an invert button, as with ARC.

The phono preamp has four gain settings and several cartridge load choices.

It comes with the nicest remote I’ve used so far.

It has a very high level of “customizability” which means it will take some effort to master. But it can also be set for very simple operation, which is what I’m listening to now.

So … it is working. And I am studying it. At the demo it performed sonically at a level competitive with the REF 6SE. My REF6SE is fully broken in and his 088 is not, so it may take a while to settle in. It sounds quite good so far. It is using less power compared to the 6SE.

[AnotherJohnson]

The Sorrento paintings are from left to right

Bob Dylan - plan to give this one to a friend who loves him

Clarence and Roland White not long before Clarence’s untimely death back in the 70’s. Clarence was Roland’s younger brother who played guitar as a member of the Byrds. Roland was one of my mentors and I counted him as a friend.

Next is a late life portrait of Roland at his monthly gig at Station Inn in Nashville.

On the other side of the foam is Jack Pearson, another mentor and friend. Jack played opposite Dickie Betts in ABB before quitting due to tinnitus from playing in front of those giant amps.

Bob Dylan and Johnny Cash … can’t be near Nashville and not love Johnny.

The Beatles… they got off that plane and took our generation to heretofore unknown musical wonderlands.

The Carter Family. The roots of recorded Roots Music. AP traveled all over Appalachia collecting the music. And they played it by contract on radio … all the way from the East coast to Mexico.

[AnotherJohnson]

The 088 is strutting its stuff now in the second album. I guess it’s warmed up. The Burmester gear may pay for itself in energy savings. Compared to the ARC or CJ gear, it’s using about a quarter of the energy, and the AC is only rarely called on to cool the room. I’ll bet I can see it on my electric bill.

[admin]

Sure looks nice with the chrome plating. Of course you will have to give it some time but sounds like it's going to be a nice addition to the system.

[AnotherJohnson]

Some reviewers have called Burmester the solid state preferred by tube lovers. I guess that’s me.

With the the 911mk3, 088, and dCS Rossini playing normal music at my normal medium loud volume level, the P20 is drawing less that 150 Watts. The preamp is rated at 45 Watts for the “on” state.

It’s been on for about six hours. Six hours of no anxiety about wasting tube life.

I’ve noticed subtle differences compared to the Ref 6SE. The 088 is bringing even more definition to the layers of vocal and instrumental tracks. I would say that bass definition is about the same. It’s in the midrange where I notice it most. I like most of the “enhancements,” but not all. Brush work on some snare tracks is more prominent. It might really be on the masters, but it is occasionally annoying. I’ll have to pay attention to this.

Edit: it appears to be just a few albums where the snare was close miked. It is not a general problem.

[AnotherJohnson]

The spec is that the 088 runs on 45 Watts and the 911 mk3 runs on 95 Watts at idle, but can consume at the rate of up to 750 Watts under a heavy load. So that explains the less than 150 Watt reading on the P20 driving my speakers to modest peaks. Aside from the P20’s tighter design specs and enhanced natural convection, the P12 could easily replace the P20 here.

This must save 600 to 800 Watts compared to my tube set ups, plus the air conditioning load just isn’t there. At my hourly usage and TVA rates, that’s about $15/month off the power bill. Of course during heating season, the heat pump will have to run more.

The 088 has a resident headphone amp which is stated to be compatible with headphones of 16 ohm impedance or more. The insertion of the 1/4” phone plug into the jack cuts off the speakers and drops the volume setting to step1 as your initial headphone volume. You control the headphone volume with the remote. The jack is on the back panel of the unit.

I commented that remote control was the nicest I’ve used. Quiet, smooth, logical … does require line of sight. Can be turned off so that unit can’t recognize it. The price is €420, making the RC20 look like a bargain at $350. But the Burmester remote also runs the other Burmester gear. And, like with ARC, the amp can be connected to the preamp so that the remote will turn on both. The remote included with mine is a model 067. It takes a pair of 2032 thin disk batteries which I happened to have on hand.

It’s now been on about 8 hours. The only negative I’ve heard is the annoying nature of that close miked brushwork, particularly on Melody Gardot’s Sunset Blues.

At the same time I’ve been impressed with the presentation of new detail on many tracks. One notable track is Bob Dylan’s The Man in the Long Back Coat on Oh Mercy. Bob is a mumbler, and the lyrics are easily obfuscated. This set up presents the best diction I’ve heard in his rendition.

[admin]

This must save 600 to 800 Watts compared to my tube set ups, plus the air conditioning load just isn’t there. At my hourly usage and TVA rates, that’s about $15/month off the power bill.

Couple of years and it will have paid for itself!

But in all seriousness, it looks great. I was just on the Burmester website and they really offer some excellent gear with such a unique design. I couldn't find a picture of the remote. I was also surprised that they do sound systems for some very high end luxury cars.... looks like McIntosh has some competition.

[audiobill]

Yes, my Porsche 911 has a Burmester stereo, but I prefer the dulcet tones of the flat six twin turbo.....

[AnotherJohnson]

I’ve read forum banter, of which there really isn’t much. Burmester gets less forum chat than even CJ.

The car audio seems like people uniformly like the Porsche implementation, but are not uniformly enamored with the Mercedes implement.

In the home though, I’ve only seen positive chatter. And reviews are uniformly good, although I’m not driven by reviews. Here’s one from 2019.

https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/burmester-088911-mk-3

Keep in mind that the 088 and 911 mk3 are NOT NEW PRODUCTS at the time of the review. It’s like Burmester dribbled out review samples over a period of 20+ years.

TAS honored the Burmester 159 with its solid state “amp of the year” award. Someone pointed this out to me, but since I don’t read about $350k amps, I’d missed it. And I’d missed the review in the TAS December 2022 issue that had led to the award.

I went back and read the review (by Robert Harley himself). A couple of things stood out.

First, Burmester had not sent him a review sample. Instead he had gone to LMC in Scottsdale (a premier Burmester dealer, even above Paragon) and he had spent two days there in a prearranged audition. One day was with their Wilson Chronosonic XVXs which are his personal long term reference. So he went to them, spent two days in the store, and on that basis gave them “2022 SS Amp of the Year” status.

Second, I thought that every sonic comment that he made in his review, especially regarding tracks I use myself for evaluation, was spot on FOR THE 911 Mk3 too. I do not often have such uniformity of agreement with a reviewer.

Burmester is a sleeper brand. My local salesman/friend at our McIntosh dealer told me last year when I was telling him about their use in some Paragon demos: “I don’t know about Burmester. I draw the line at $75k for a CD player.”

Actually Burmester has three product levels. There is the Classic series which is priced in the range between McIntosh and CJ. Then there is the Top Line series which is priced more like high end CJ. And then there is the Reference series which appears to know little about sensible people pricing, ranging up to $350k for the 159 amp and $375k for their flagship speakers. $70k-ish and up for preamp and source.

My kit (from the Top Line) is cheaper than an ART 88 and pair of ART 108As, but that’s not why I bought it. Getting a real demonstration of the ART line is nigh unto impossible for me. Getting an extensive, well run demo of Burmester was a piece of cake. Burmester does not have a dealer network like McIntosh, but they do have some excellent dealers with bricks and mortar stores and a commitment to inventory and demo rooms. That goes a long way for customers who are considering products in the pricing stratosphere.

[AnotherJohnson]

Admin commented on not finding the remote on the website. I don’t see it either, and if you Google it you may find one for sale, but mostly you find Chinese programmable plastic stuff from Amazon or eBay.

The dealers don’t have them on their websites either.

I’ve seen two versions. Mine is the 067 (the smaller of the two). Paragon’s website says the remote is an option, ie it’s not included in the $33k price.

dCS is the same way (nice well built remote is an extra cost above the $33k+ Rossini), except dCS will give you the phone app for free whereas there is no phone app for Burmester. Of course the Burmester 088 can be run without a remote, and some people want to do that.

I like the 067. I suppose if I bought the CD player or Music Center, I’d be happy that I did not need to pay for another remote.

Mine was advertised with the remote as part of the deal. And the owners manual says that a remote is included, although it doesn’t give the model number.

Now I’ve got six pair of their Balanced to Unbalanced converters. In the case of unbalanced phono leads, they include and recommend use of the ground screw on the optional phono board. Mine included the low output moving coil phono board.

There are actually four options for one of the inputs. The default is that they include a line level unbalanced input. The three choices are a very flexible low output moving coil phono input, a very flexible high output moving coil or moving magnet phono input, or a digital input with DAC.

[AnotherJohnson]

We seem to be seeing more German and Swiss high end gear in the US. Up until recently DarTZeel, CH Precision, and the like, had only been known by a few.

I am now curious about a shootout with DarTZeel, CH, and Burmester. That could be really ear opening.

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes! That gear compared side by side is truly tops! Totally different level.

Dartzeel and CH Precision, plus Solution I know quite well. Have had extensive auditions on all three but with varying config of gear. So, it's not that easy to ascertain which one was better or so... simply because nearly everything was different, including cables & accessories, plus most important of all, the speakers! From Magico Q7's to the Swiss Steinman's, plus exotic panels like Alsyvox and Diptyque...

Burmester is one of those that kept quiet (within the Sth East Asian Region that is...) under the radar sort of but has always remained right up there. I've been following Vitus more closely, same with my former dealer mates, and even more closely the Pass Labs XA series gear. The Vitus Audio amps, especially the SS-103 & SM-103 series are superb!!! and so is the damn price tag!

Overall, coming from an all Tooob domain... I've found the Pass Labs XA-amps to be closer to tubes, such that they have that enveloping affect, and wrapped around soundstage depth that tubes offer. Especially the well designed tube gear, that's one thing they always excel at and it's so hard to let go of tubes! For me at least it is.

At the end of the day, as many have stated on CJO, from CJ to ARC to Mac and other gear, I reckon putting together any high-end system is an art form. It takes years and years! And still we're not satisfied... continuously seeking the purist analog signal or digital signal, whatever floats your boat.
One thing that will deteriorate regardless of what gear we have or how much we've spent, is our precious hearing! I believe, once you've put together a very high level of audio gear and turned it into a system that reproduces fine music and satisfies your inner soul, whether that may be with tubes, SS or even both, and it immerses your senses, just sit back and enjoy those fine tunes!

Certainly looks like you've got a fantastic combination with the Burmester pre-power, and the S-Daws should be revealing all the goodness!
Woof! RJ

[audiobill]

And Weiss DACs (Swiss) are top notch; preferred by some over dcs......

[AnotherJohnson]

And Weiss DACs (Swiss) are top notch; preferred by some over dcs......

There are lot of really superb DACs out there, no doubt.

I’m using my McIntosh MCT500 transport to play Ron Affif’s Solotude through the Rossini right now. It is hard to imagine how it could be improved on, but my experience the past year or two tells me that it probably can be improved on.

I don’t want to hear it though. Comparison is expensive.

[AnotherJohnson]

Listening to David Hazeltine Trio Jobim Songbook in New York (Chesky SACD) on the Levinson 5101.

The instrument locations are diagrammed in the notes.

This is the very best placement to match the diagram that I have heard here. With most SACD player, amp and preamp combinations they’re very nicely placed and stable here. But this stands out. Especially the cohesiveness of the ensemble. The double bass is anchored better than I’ve heard it with other amps and preamps.

[AnotherJohnson]

Tried the headphone amp. Burmester claim that the headphones should have an impedance of 16 Ohms or more. Mine are 300 iirc. In any event, because of his potential mismatch, I was expecting less than great result. But the bass was there, as was everything else. I was playing a classical SACD, and it was actually so exciting that I literally jumped in my chair at one point.

In addition to the clarification of Bob Dylan’s mumbling at the start of The Man in the Long Black Coat, a few other tracks that often get obfuscated are the Everly Brothers vocals that are embedded under Paul Simon’s on Graceland, and Paula Cole’s duets with herself on Where Have All the Cowboys Gone. These have all been becoming more clear with the evolution of my system this past year and a half. And I’m sure they could continue to improve with more upgrading, but the 088 combined with the 911 mk3 is the clearest I’ve heard them anywhere.

I started down this path when I bought a used LS28 with the idea that it might match better with my TEA1. It did not. But what it did do was sort of a shock. It allowed me to more clearly hear lyrics in languages other than my first. German lyrics in Wagner’s Ring Cycle is where I began to discover how much even high end preamps can vary.

Well … ART88, or “Art for the Ears 088,” 11 octaves matching the piano … 88 seems to be a surprisingly worthy musical destination.

[AnotherJohnson]

88 total keys on a standard Steinway, but because of the extra four keys making an octave 12 keys to fit within 8 notes, the Standard Steinway is just a bit over 7 octaves. But 88 keys is 88 … as in ART 88 and 088.

Here’s an interesting article about piano key history and even keyboards with more than 88 keys.

https://www.classicfm.com/discover-musi ... ack%20keys.

Note that the world record for most keys was set in 2018 by Stuart and Sons when they created a nine-octave piano, with 108 keys.

108. Does that ring a bell for any CJ fans? Coincidence? I don’t think so.

[admin]

That's interesting. I didn't get the numbering of the newer gear, but perhaps this is it?

[AnotherJohnson]

That's interesting. I didn't get the numbering of the newer gear, but perhaps this is it?

In the case of Burmester, the numbers often appear to be tied to dates. Like 777 for July ‘77, or 808 for August ‘80.

But they acknowledged the avoidance of 4s, as unlucky for Eastern cultures.

The 077 seems to be a follow up on the 777. But the 088 did not displace the 808.

In the case of CJ, I know that they have considered Eastern culture both in their choice of casework color and in their high end model numbers.

This tie to the piano is interesting. 88 keys for Steinway standard. 108 keys for biggest known in history. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were a conscious connection.