Burmester 911 mk3 and CJ inverting Preamps

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes, agreed on that. Studios and the professional gear always run XLR and wherever possible they make sure of it.

However, I'm not running a studio... and i can't be bothered but I understand your point. I always refer to that 700grand system, it was Balanced from head to toe, even the chap serving drinks was well balanced! However, sounded like a big wall of sound. Thick, veiled, muffled... no quickness, hardly any transparency, mids were off, highs were on another plane, and bass was just a massive lump! It was like listening to three different speakers all at once, absolutely no coherency. My good mate felt exactly the same. Simply because it was 700grand everyone thought it was truly tops! Good for them.

Just on a thought though, I have been wondering about the time when downsizing commences... perhaps then a fully Balanced setup may be something to consider. It will also fully utilise the Esoteric in XLR config, the output level is much higher in XLR mode compared to SE. So this is definitely something to consider. Perhaps the matching Pre-power from Eso and then retire, who knows.

Unlike the US market, over here these types of cables aren't affordable by any means. There's not a single dealer / importer here that will match US prices or the Duty Free offers you get in Spore, no chance. They put a premium on XLR just because... so if we can get away with decent tunes from SE, it's good enough for the time being.

Trust the Burmester and REF6se are going well. Perhaps later on you can home trial the Burmester preamp, that should be further refined but depends on what you're after.
Let us know how it goes, looks like your audio journey has just begun... yet again!

Cheers, RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

Yes, agreed on that. Studios and the professional gear always run XLR and wherever possible they make sure of it.

However, I'm not running a studio... and i can't be bothered but I understand your point. I always refer to that 700grand system, it was Balanced from head to toe, even the chap serving drinks was well balanced! However, sounded like a big wall of sound. Thick, veiled, muffled... no quickness, hardly any transparency, mids were off, highs were on another plane, and bass was just a massive lump! It was like listening to three different speakers all at once, absolutely no coherency. My good mate felt exactly the same. Simply because it was 700grand everyone thought it was truly tops! Good for them.

Just on a thought though, I have been wondering about the time when downsizing commences... perhaps then a fully Balanced setup may be something to consider. It will also fully utilise the Esoteric in XLR config, the output level is much higher in XLR mode compared to SE. So this is definitely something to consider. Perhaps the matching Pre-power from Eso and then retire, who knows.

Unlike the US market, over here these types of cables aren't affordable by any means. There's not a single dealer / importer here that will match US prices or the Duty Free offers you get in Spore, no chance. They put a premium on XLR just because... so if we can get away with decent tunes from SE, it's good enough for the time being.

Trust the Burmester and REF6se are going well. Perhaps later on you can home trial the Burmester preamp, that should be further refined but depends on what you're after.
Let us know how it goes, looks like your audio journey has just begun... yet again!

Cheers, RJ

I didn’t mean to suggest that you, or anyone else who is not having issues, should switch to balanced. Sorry if that was implied.

I’m just tired of the old chestnut that speakers are unbalanced, obviously single ended is best.

What’s really best is what you like. Your ears, your system. That’s sure how it works here.

[AnotherJohnson]

Trust the Burmester and REF6se are going well. Perhaps later on you can home trial the Burmester preamp, that should be further refined but depends on what you're after.
Let us know how it goes, looks like your audio journey has just begun... yet again!

Burmester seems to be just as crazy about model numbers as CJ. In addition to the 088 preamp, there is an 077, and an 808mk5. And I think they’ve avoided calling anything a mk4, just like Wilson.

The Burmester preamps in their so-called Top line and higher are really very nice, but also very complex. And, of course, very pricey.

I would like to get an 088 or 077 if the proper deal came along. Then I could retire the Ref 75SE and Ref 6SE and wait for them to inflate in value .

In the comparo in Ann Arbor, I liked the ARC Ref 6SE just as well as I liked the 088. But the 088 had some useful features, like custom input matching, that ARC did not include in the Ref 6SE.

In the published specs for the 911 mk3 the input impedance is a misprint that, if correct, would pretty much guarantee that the Ref 6SE could not possibly work. Paragon has actually put together several systems pairing Ref 6SE up with the Burmester amps, including the 911.

I guess the punchline is that I am on the hunt for a good deal on an 088 or 077. Less interested in the 808, but there is one of those currently listed on eBay.

[Big Dog RJ]

No worries at all matey, I was just saying... and I do understand the benefits. Definitely something to consider when I reach that point.

On another note, I just realised that now you don't have a single CJ gear left and I'm thinking that ARC is on its way out as well... in which case you may have to upgrade your title to: "Another Burmester" instead of another johnson
Now that deserves a mighty WOOF!
RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

No worries at all matey, I was just saying... and I do understand the benefits. Definitely something to consider when I reach that point.

On another note, I just realised that now you don't have a single CJ gear left and I'm thinking that ARC is on its way out as well... in which case you may have to upgrade your title to: "Another Burmester" instead of another johnson
Now that deserves a mighty WOOF!
RJ

Another Johnson is a dangerous moniker.

I like being in the company of WZJ, Lew J, Prof Keith, and the like …

I’ll always be just one more J on the list, maybe as a foot note or less.

You’re right about my CJ footprint. It is hard to get out of CJ. You have to really drop the price, so you’d better have bought it well. You can always trade for new CJ, but the instant depreciation hit is every penny of 50%. It is almost impossible to trade for other brands, except in private deals or at The Music Room.

So … my CJ gear is gone after a 35+ year love affair. I still have a full system’s worth of ARC, and I am seriously thinking of holding on to it for the investment value … but if tubes really do tank, and I think they could in present politics, I’m not sure whether ARC goes up, or down. I’ve got literally 12000 to 15000 hours worth of back up tubes.

There are a few dealers out there who carry both ARC and Burmester. So a trade of ARC for an 088 or 077 could be done. But right now I’m just watching to see if ARC lands on its feet, and where tubes head.

Getting rid of the Ref 250SE monoblocks was a nod to hedging my bets on tube availability. Plus I liked the subtlety of the Ref 75SE better than the hammer of the 250s.

The Burmester 911 mk3 is really the best of both worlds. Incredible power when called for, delicate detail available all the time. I really am impressed with this amp.

[AnotherJohnson]

Here are pics of the Burmester adapters.

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Burmester makes no bones about using them.

I wish I had an ART88 and some RCA Thunderbird Zeros here to try with them.

I could use RCA McKenzies on the single ended outputs of the Ref 6SE, but I’m not sure it would tell me much.

[AnotherJohnson]

Burmester makes a fuss about their power cords. Here’s a picture. You can see that it is a 20 amp C19 style at the unit.

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The dealer suggested that my extra 2m Transparent MM2 Powerlink would likely be an additional improvement. So that’s what I’ve been using.

[AnotherJohnson]

I mentioned the gain of the 911 mk3 as being high. I reset the max out voltage on the Rossini from 2 to .6. I’ve done similar for vinyl by choosing the ARC Ref Phono 3 Low Gain setting instead of the High Gain setting.

[admin]

That looks like a very nice power cable. Glad to see they are putting some thought into that as well.

The balanced to RCA converters are the equivalent of a "cheater plug." Really not much their other than connecting two of the 3 balanced pins as a common ground/neg on the RCA plug.

[AnotherJohnson]

That looks like a very nice power cable. Glad to see they are putting some thought into that as well.

The balanced to RCA converters are the equivalent of a "cheater plug." Really not much their other than connecting two of the 3 balanced pins as a common ground/neg on the RCA plug.

I will check, but I think they tie the left and right pins as ground and the center pin is the hot.

It’s not really like a cheater plug which lifts ground for the chassis. It is doing the same negative thing that RCA always does, ie it is providing a path to establish ground loops by having every chassis forced to ground at its three prong plug, and then tying the boxes all together via their connections. I suspect if you use the adapters, you might have to plug everything into one duplex outlet.

They also include XLR to RCA adapters with their preamps.

At their price point I would think they could do like ARC or Levinson or McIntosh, and include some RCA connectors, but then CJ doesn’t include any XLR. On the 088 there is an RCA input, but if you add the phono option it gets turned into an XLR phono.

For me it’s a moot point. I won’t ever buy any RCA only gear again for a main system. But there’s still HT and legacy boxes, like Denon three head deck, Marantz SA-KI Ruby, ND8006. Even video has abandoned RCA in favor of other options.

[AnotherJohnson]

The more I look at those adapters, the more they look like unbadged Neutrik to me. But I guess that’s just due to the fact that adapters have simple form to match simple function. It’s nice that they include them. That’s their acknowledgment of the existence of single ended designs that are already in the field.

[AnotherJohnson]

911 mk3 just keeps getting better.

088 preamp arrives tomorrow.

I’m not missing the REF250SEs as nice as they were.

Turntables are on the right about 20’ up the right wall.

The 088 that’s coming tomorrow is configured with a very flexible phono preamp. Several gains and loads can be chosen. Will it kill the need for the Ref Phono 3? I guess I’ll have to wait and see.

The two foam boards are exactly the same size.

The paintings were done by Lamar Sorrento on my commissioning. I have several more that aren’t in this picture. There are tube traps in both corners, but they’re hidden by the Sasha DAWs.

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[admin]

Looking great. The Wilson's really look great and the Burmester complements the PS Audio power supply and ARC unit.

[audiobill]

Nice setup. Perhaps some attention to visual aesthetics could improve the overall presentation....

[AnotherJohnson]

At this point I really have ZERO incentive to upgrade anything. The last mysteries will be whether or not the 088 can beat the Ref 6SE and Ref 3 Phono. In the demo of the 088 vs Ref 6 SE, it was too close to call a winner.

I found a deal on the 088, and since I’m not optimistic about the continuing supply of tubes, I decided to pick it up.

The REF6SE and Ref Phono 3 are better than anything I’ve ever tried before. But the 088 may have some synergy with the 911 mk3 and it’s impossible to know without trying it in my own system.

The 911 mk3 continues to seem to be some sort of magic box. Authoritative yet subtle. Liquid yet precise. Modest weight. Uncannily excellent heat management. Unexpected efficiency. Best sound, best resolution, best soundstage… is it worth it? I can’t answer for anyone but me.

I’ve shuffled the Sorrentos again, dropping Django in favor of adding some others of size similar to the others.

[AnotherJohnson]

Nice setup. Perhaps some attention to visual aesthetics could improve the overall presentation....

It part of a retired guy’s man cave. It would not pass in a shared space.

You should see the other “workshop” half of the room. The man cave esthetic is in full force. Certainly not as nice a fashion statement as a wall of McIntosh, though there are a couple of meterless McIntosh boxes on the right.

It’s functional … and by no means the least elegant I’ve seen.

[AnotherJohnson]

My dealer carries McIntosh, Burmester, ARC, dCS, Transparent, Sonus Faber, Wilson, (among others) and actually stocks virtually full lines and demonstrators. Highly recommended. There truly is a lid for every pot.

Paragon Sight and Sound. Worth my 1100 mile round trip to visit them. Of course I used to live in Ann Arbor when I was on the faculty at U of M. So I have other things to do there.

While Tom O’Keefe, the internationally recognized Linn guru, was there too, it was even more worthwhile to go. But Tom has now retired from his employment at Overture in order to concentrate on his importing business, Nokturne Audio.

[audiobill]

"Its part of a retired guy’s man cave. It would not pass in a shared space.

You should see the other “workshop” half of the room. The man cave esthetic is in full force. Certainly not as nice a fashion statement as a wall of McIntosh, though there are a couple of meterless McIntosh boxes on the right.

It’s functional … and by no means the least elegant I’ve seen."

So disappointing, I had you wired as a class act. Upgrade the presentation, and show us what you can do!! LOL

[AnotherJohnson]

You can’t call the tune, Bill. My eyes, my system.

[Big Dog RJ]

Nice one AJ mate!

So this may be the last changeover in gear / upgrades / new arrivals... Ah, those famous last words. We're all holding on to our inner beliefs as to what's best for us. However, as you rightly pointed out, once the comparisons begin, so does the cycle.

The Burmester preamp matched with that particular power amp, should have better synergy, I would think. Although the Ref6se is as good as it gets, I believe with the Burmester preamp you'll probably get a higher level of effortless drive and dynamics.

The S-Daws will definitely recognise it straight off the bat! As very important as the home trial is, only then will you know. That's the real test!
Until such time, do enjoy those finest tunes!

Woof! RJ