CT5 vs premier 16 LS2 vs premier 17 LS2

[smodtactical]

Considering these 3 preamps. About to buy. Seems to be similar price on the used market. Above all else I Am looking for a tonally rich, dense preamp likely to pair with my CJ LP70S and Pass xs350.8.

From my reading it seems the 16 or ct5 would be the ones to get with the 16 being richer.

Any thoughts? Thanks!

[admin]

All good choices and not going to argue which "sounds better." However, all things being equal I would go with the newer model. The CT5 is going to be 7 years younger than a premier 16. When a unit is pushing 3 decades, you really have to start worrying about those caps and other components aging out. As an owner of vintage CJ gear (like my MV-55), it's really a concern. It doesn't mean the gear is not good, just that the price has to match the undeniable fact that it could fail at any time which would incur high repair costs (if even worth repairing).

[smodtactical]

Its a good point for sure. I am afraid of CT5 sounding too hifi or solid state. Hopefully it has enough 'tubeyness'.

[Joe Appierto]

admin's point regarding newer = greater longevity is of course valid.

The following is from a thread on AudiogoN which you may already be familiar with but is germane to the argument that the 6922 is more tubey sounding than the 6H30π.

"I have a CJ CT-5 which uses the same tube. Prior to that I owned a CJ 17LS which used the 6922 tubes. Partly depends on what your after. Tube rolling offers many benefits (and frustrations too) but ultimately keep your focus on the preamp itself and not the tubes its uses. Trust your ears, if you like what your hearing you'll be fine...."

The thread itself may be found here: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/ ... the-others

Another factor you may want to consider given tube availability is that the CT5 uses 2 x 6H30π, the 17LS2 4 x 6922 and the 16LS2 6 x 6922.

[AnotherJohnson]

If you really want a stereotypically tubey sound, check out eBay right now.

There are several vintage CJ preamps being offered at prices below $2k. Euphonious distortion abounds in waves that make McIntosh aficionados cringe.

As for the choices you’re asking about, I think the points above are good ones. Newer is more maintainable as a rule. 6922s are more tubey than 6H30s, though neither have to be tubey sounding if used correctly. Future tube availability is uncertain.

The new CJ ET series preamps use a single tube … that’s got to be considered a plus.

When I think about new preamps, I am only thinking about solid state these days.

[smodtactical]

Ya you know its possible that CT5 and the 6H30 tube might be just the right amount of tube magic and tone for me and the 16ls2 and 17ls2 might go too far. Its really tough to say. I can also try different combinations like CT5 + lp70s or 16ls2 + pass x350.8. I guess I just have to try and see what I think.

The CT5 im looking at is about $1k cheaper than the 16ls2 and also the seller says it was recently serviced by CJ so that is a plus.

[Big Dog RJ]

The Prem16LS and 17LS were CJ's last few preamps in their Premier line series, being tube design. After which they put out the Premier 18LS but it was a SS design, no tubes.

Later on the Premier line was discontinued to make way for their CT series and followed by the ET series. The CT5 is basically a revised version of the ACT2, which was their top of the line, before the GAT series came out.
Both the CT5 and ACT2 use 6H30PI tubes or also known as 6N30P.

In my particular system, since I've modded my amplifiers, this was to create a custom sound through full range stats. I've used the other ET series preamps, and although very good in every way, my personal preference at this stage is the CT5. What it does for my particular system is simply outstanding! Therefore, I have absolutely nothing more that I would require from this particular design. If I were to make a significant improvement in overall performance, I would only consider the ART88 but it costs 46grand! The CT5 still does have a bit of CJ's golden glow... whether this is a good thing or not, is something that only the owner can determine. The newer ET series is far more neutral, it gets further out of the way and leaves more of the recording. So going back to the Premier series preamps, is going quite a while back... such that the Premier series is vintage gear. However, during its glory days, the Premier series was CJ's top tier gear.

Just as a note: our CJ importer for Aus actually used a CT5 along with the LP70S, LP140M, LP125M and LP275M's in their demo rooms for a number of years. Driving various speakers from Quad ESL's to Vandy's, the level of musicality was superb! That's when I decided to settle for the CT5 just after I sold off my ACT2.

You'll have to decide which type of preamp and from which series you prefer. The best audition would be if you could try out any of these preamps in your system. Only then you'll know for sure.
Here's a small pic!

Cheers, RJ

[audiobill]

FYI:
https://tmraudio.com/components/preampl ... ier-ls-17/

[smodtactical]

What if I introduce GAT or art series 2 into the equation. Is it worth going to this level?

[admin]

The higher you go in the line (and newer), the generally better performance and reliability you are going to have. Of course, you have to balance that with cost,... otherwise we would all just simply recommend you buy an ART88 and be done with it.

I think it's going to come down to quality/reliability vs cost. If you are on a set budget, you want to maximize the quality within that budget. That is true not just for CJ preamps but all gear. I think we can go back and forth of which gear sounds more "tuby" or not, and with which specific tubes, etc... but at the end of the day these are all excellent top of the line audio gear. You can't go "wrong" with a choice, but there is also no clear winner as the cost of the units vary and reliability is not going to be the same for older vs newer gear. And how much headache are you willing to trade to risk a unit having a problem. There is a calculated cost involved with that as well.

I'm probably not helping,... My point I suppose is to see what the budget is and then see what is available within that budget. We talk about the general tube shortage as being a factor but I'm kind of optimistic in that sense that I think tube supply will be back. I just retubed my PV-14L that has two smaller input tubes. It cost $50 with shipping and I got it the next day. Not exactly a crisis. Yes, retubing my ART amp with sixteen KT120's would be costly, but even there you don't necessarily have to replace all the tubes at once. Also, comrade Putin can't keep up his shenanigan's forever. Tube supply will at some point rebound. There are also (less than ideal) Chinese tubes available if you are in a big crunch.

I'm patient with my purchases and have been able to get amazing deals on much of my gear. It's not always about finding that one particular unit. If something good comes on the market for a great price, you can maximize the total stereo budget to get the best sound for minimal expenditure.

Just my 2 cents. Opinions may vary.

[smodtactical]

FYI:
https://tmraudio.com/components/preampl ... ier-ls-17/

I See that bill yes good price too. I bet all these preamps are superb.

1 other data point. I am borrowing a Doge 8 preamp right now to pair with the LP70S and I actually like the sound more than my bottlehead moreplay. It sounds bigger, more open and more detailed with more powerful dimensional bass.

So maybe newer CJ pre would actually be good for me. Ie. ct5 or et5 ?

[smodtactical]

I am getting an offer for an ET5 for $3100 usd all in delivered. I think I might do it.

[admin]

That certainly would be a wonderful unit in the system. Let us know how it turns out.

[smodtactical]

Deal fell through. So now I will keep looking. I have considered saving and getting a Gat S1, theres one for $8500 right now and assuming he would take $8000... but Im also not sure if et5 is that much better.

Maybe act2 series 2 or ct7s2 ?

Theres a 16 LS2 for $2600 usd but Im leaning towards not getting it now since it doesn't have the teflon caps.

[AnotherJohnson]

Deal fell through. So now I will keep looking. I have considered saving and getting a Gat S1, theres one for $8500 right now and assuming he would take $8000... but Im also not sure if et5 is that much better.

Maybe act2 series 2 or ct7s2 ?

Theres a 16 LS2 for $2600 usd but Im leaning towards not getting it now since it doesn't have the teflon caps.

At $8k there are a lot of choices.

You could add Teflon caps to most CJ vintage units and be well under $8k.

“That much better” is really in the ears of the listener. It’s so subjective. I wish it were easier to get good demos.

Have you considered a new preamp with warranty? I’m thinking ET6 or ET6SE.

[admin]

Deal fell through. So now I will keep looking. I have considered saving and getting a Gat S1, theres one for $8500 right now and assuming he would take $8000... but Im also not sure if et5 is that much better.

Maybe act2 series 2 or ct7s2 ?

Theres a 16 LS2 for $2600 usd but Im leaning towards not getting it now since it doesn't have the teflon caps.

I think this is a really hard comparison as the price points are so different. What sounds better, a $8500 preamp over a $2600 one but with an extra $6000 for other upgrades or the current setup with an $8500 preamp? I don't want to say that a budget needs to be fixed but putting a specific $X value on Y sound improvement is difficult (if not impossible).

I typically make a budget for components or systems. That way I know what I have to work with and get to make reasonable choices within that limitation. I will say that sometimes a bargain comes up and I will jump on that but if I'm looking for something, vs an opportunity that comes spontaneously, I typically will try to set a budget beforehand. If you have a budget it makes life easier. The question then simply becomes, what is the best unit for under $X. Just something to think about.

[smodtactical]

Thank you

[SolderSlinger]

All good advice. There are a few other things to consider too. Is remote control a must have? If not a Premier 3 or first release of the Classic preamp with the M8080 tube are less neutral than the CT5 or ET series. While I'm not a tube roller, is the ability to roll tubes important to you? Any of the 6922 based designs like ET series opens up tube availability to manufacturing from around the world with NOS back to the 1950s. The M8080 is no longer produced, and the 6H30 has limited choices. The ET preamps use 1 tube. I have an ET5 which has a reputation of being hard on tubes. My experience is the myth is true. But I'm Ok with it because there's only one tube so operating cost is low. Replacement frequency is dependent on hours of use. I average 1,000 hours which with todays tube costs is 10 cents an hour. Electricity to power the rig cost more. My $0.02 is any CJ preamp is a great preamp.

[admin]

Good questions, but the only person who can answer things like "is tube rolling important," is you. The good think is that preamps typically take smaller input tubes which are not very expensive. So if they go bad (or you just want to tube role), it's not an arm and a leg to get them replaced. I find concern for tube costs much more prominent in amps. Replacing 16 KT120's in my ART amp is a pretty big financial purchase. The $50 I spent retubing my PV-14L,... not so much.

[smodtactical]

All good advice. There are a few other things to consider too. Is remote control a must have? If not a Premier 3 or first release of the Classic preamp with the M8080 tube are less neutral than the CT5 or ET series. While I'm not a tube roller, is the ability to roll tubes important to you? Any of the 6922 based designs like ET series opens up tube availability to manufacturing from around the world with NOS back to the 1950s. The M8080 is no longer produced, and the 6H30 has limited choices. The ET preamps use 1 tube. I have an ET5 which has a reputation of being hard on tubes. My experience is the myth is true. But I'm Ok with it because there's only one tube so operating cost is low. Replacement frequency is dependent on hours of use. I average 1,000 hours which with todays tube costs is 10 cents an hour. Electricity to power the rig cost more. My $0.02 is any CJ preamp is a great preamp.

Remote is a must for me. ET5 seems like a good option if i can track another down for a good price. The one in USA would cost me $700 usd more than the one that came up locally. Too bad.