AXpona 2023

[Big Dog RJ]

Greetings from down unda!

Not sure where to place this post but thought this would be OK. Any of our members attend this year's AXpona 2023? It was held in Chicago IL, and went fairly alright... according to some of my good mates.

So two of my former dealers attended from Spore. They were quite pleased with the demo from the Diptyque ribbon panels and the new Clarisys line of ribbon panels. This was pretty much a first time go for Clarisys Audio and they had the Minuet series panels. Although these are the smallest in line, they weigh in at a hefty 90kgs each! Made from solid steel frames, very rigid base with heavy duty steel plinths, that adds further weight and rigidness.

They both own the Alsyvox ribbons as their personal reference systems, and were very impressed by the Clarisys Minuets, so this definitely means something. Also very impressive were the mighty Moon 888 power amplifiers, these are in monoblock version and put out something like 1000w at 8 Ohms then to 1700 at 4 Ohms and further 2000w us at 2 Ohms, real power houses. These are Moon's top of the line. The last time I experienced the Moon amps were driving Focal speakers, which were very good.

The only limitations according to my mates, were the use of TT's or analog in general were diminishing, almost every room set-up & demo were using digital streaming as the primary source, with the occasional sacd playback systems.
Only a handful were actually using vinyl, which sounded fabulous according to them.

Anyway, I went through the pics and coverage on WBF, they've seemed to cover the show in good detail, with a few great write ups. Was just wondering if anyone from our mob attended.

Cheers, RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

I thought about going, but unlike your friends, I am afraid to travel to the Chicago area. I’m glad they were safe and are now home. I do know two who went, but both as industry attendees rather than hobbyists.

Regarding the TT issue, I think the demos are geared toward the interest of the market, and streaming is where the action is. Many exhibitors nowadays don’t even have some on their staff who could properly set up a TT.

The stores here are going the same way. The HiFi Buys in Nashville has the possibility of doing TT demos, but it’s not the focus of any of their demo systems. Their inventory of phono cartridges by itself proves that they have no commitment to vinyl.

The HiFi Buys in Atlanta and Paragon in Ann Arbor both offer strong TT demos and strong phono cartridge support, including expert installation. But these are the exception rather than the rule.

[admin]

Wish I could have gone. I've noticed a greater shift to digital streaming at some local audio shops as well. There's a tablet in every demo room. I guess with more streaming services offering up lossless hirez files and more companies offering streamers, it makes it easier for potential customers to just say, "Play this album", or maybe even for the presenters to make playlists from a varying number of artists and recordings instead of having to spin the entire record.

And as AJ mentioned, heck of a lot easier to set up a streamer correctly than a TT.

[AnotherJohnson]

Wish I could have gone. I've noticed a greater shift to digital streaming at some local audio shops as well. There's a tablet in every demo room.


And as AJ mentioned, heck of a lot easier to set up a streamer correctly than a TT.

Regarding the tablet, I LOVE IT. Much better than a phone.

Regarding the ease of streaming …. Someone who went last year was on the side of a conversation I was having with a sales buddy. I was explaining the Nucleus and I mentioned the Rossini. The guy on the periphery broke in to interrupt saying “Sorry to interrupt, but I went last year and most of the good demos were using the Rossini.”

My point isn’t to say the Rossini is good. My point is that the Rossini won’t run on WiFi. So at least at the 2022 AXpona show must have had Ethernet available to many exhibitors.

If Ethernet is available, high quality streaming can easily become plug ‘n play.

[paulCJ]

I went to Axpona 2023. Saw a lot of rooms. Missed a lot of rooms. The room with Stenheim speakers driven by VTL tube pre and 4 VTL tube monoblocks was the highlight for me. Speaker cables were nordost. I missed the ribbon panels that Big Dog mentioned above. The Estelon Extreme MK 2 were on display and suffered from a bad sounding room or cold sounding Vitus amps or poor music choices. Not sure what it was, but just sounded off. Infigo brought a new $20k full Class A stereo amp in addition to their $50k full Class A monoblocks. Those amps are the smoothest solid state I've ever heard. They were matched up with speakers from Alta Audio and sounded just wonderful. PS Audio had issues with the room and a lot of background noise (loud talking). But despite this, their FR20 & FR30 speakers sounded very nice. The midrange in particular sounded open and clean. Magnepan had their 3.7i and LRS+ on display. Wendell was not in the Magnepan room but had Martin Logan electrostats in a different room on a different floor. Not sure about what exactly he had on display, as one had to sign up for a specific time for a listening session, and I/others with me didn't sign up. The 3.7i and LRS+ suffered from what I would call bad system synergy. On Sunday, the LRS+ went up to the Bob Carver room and were paired with tubes, but the speakers were located close to the wall and wood headboard located right behind the speakers

[admin]

Sounds like a fun time. Sad to hear the maggies were not set up properly. Positioning and the amps powering them is so crucial. A lot of times these "hotel setups" are really difficult to place and it can be hit or miss. The LRS+ may be the best speaker for the money on the market (IMHO).

[Big Dog RJ]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the Wendell Diller project...

According to my good mates, this is the first time Wendell D crossed over to the other side of the force. He had very special demo gear set up, which included ML Expressions stat panels, without the bass drivers. Instead, Wendell had custom built eight bass drivers into a tower concept, using a carefully designed crossover, had managed to mate these woofer towers directly with the stat panels. According to my chaps, this was one very excellent system! It reminded them of the ML Evo-II's Statements back in the day. This one with a newer designed stat panel and a dedicated bass driver system with external crossovers.

According to Wendell, he always wanted to try this out and believes that having the bass drivers detached from the main stat panel is far more cohesive than having a stat plus bass drivers all in one frame. Causes other issues like phase anomalies and so on.

This is the first time I mentioned to the guys that Wendell D merged a ML stat panel to a custom built woofer tower, and so his primary choice was an electrostat, not a ribbon panel. Further on when asked by WD as to why he chose a stat panel, his answer is that the electrostats have far less mass, probably the lightest material you can have as a transducer. Therefore, making it the perfect choice for audio signal response, it's instantaneous! There's no overhang or any further motion in such a material, and it reacts to the incoming signal with absolute zero coloration, zero distortion and nothing in the way, just the pure audio signal.

Uh, I guess that makes total sense!
Cheers to stats!
RJ

[Big Dog RJ]

If I was there, I would've taken Wendell out for a beer, damn!
We've spoken very briefly over Skype, following his instructions... whiles I was setting up the Maggie 30.7's at my mates place in Melb. He knows his stuff but to hear about this special one-off project with ML stats and a woofer system that he designed, must have been one cool project to develop.

Nice one Wendell! Cheers mate.
RJ

[sleepysurf]

I believe the reason he paired the prototype Magnepan dipole bass array with ML stats was to demonstrate they could even keep up with the SPEED of electrostatic speakers (ostensibly even faster than Maggies), and blend well even at a higher crossover point. Obviously, from a marketing perspective, if they worked well with ML's, they would certainly work well with Magnepan, or other dipole panel speaker designs.

Here are a couple videos of their Axpona demo...
https://youtu.be/GYrxVfAVq7A
https://youtu.be/fYYsX0f3hko

[AnotherJohnson]

I believe the reason he paired the prototype Magnepan dipole bass array with ML stats was to demonstrate they could even keep up with the SPEED of electrostatic speakers (ostensibly even faster than Maggies), and blend well even at a higher crossover point. Obviously, from a marketing perspective, if they worked well with ML's, they would certainly work well with Magnepan, or other dipole panel speaker designs.

Here are a couple videos of their Axpona demo...
https://youtu.be/GYrxVfAVq7A
https://youtu.be/fYYsX0f3hko

I thought these videos were interesting. These folks seem to be sincerely interested in bringing good sound to a larger audience.

[admin]

Cool videos. Love ML and magnepan.

[AnotherJohnson]

RJ, Roberto and I have all incorporated Martin Logan stat panels and BF series subwoofers at one time or another. I’ve even used them with conventional speakers. I think that RJ and Roberto are still using theirs to extend the bass in their CLX systems.

My point in bringing this up is that the BF series of subwoofer shares both the DSP and class D amp characteristics that Wendel is promoting as new, as well as opposing bass drivers.

I’m still trying to figure out his motivation for bringing molested (they had a woofer-ectomy) ML (look like classic 9 or Theos) and pairing them with a bizarre pair of unnamed subs claimed to be dipoles.

FWIW, the Classic 9 has two opposing bass drivers. And so do the ML BF series subs.

Maybe this demo was so weird in order to attract more reviewers to his room. The secret Magnepan room in 2023 may become a talking point that sustains Magnepan buzz even though there were no Maggie’s in the room.

[AnotherJohnson]

I’ve sifted through several other related videos highlighting Wendel and axpona 2023.

Unlike RJ, I do not know him personally.

So take my thoughts with a grain of salt. I may be missing his points.

First of all, he says that to clear out a room, put on some complex orchestral music (aka classical music). Everyone will leave.

Second, for classical music demos he used Professor Johnson’s Reference Recordings. Yet ANOTHER Johnson. We’re everywhere… but that’s neither here nor there.

The point is that “Professor” Johnson’s References are of obscure performances … there may be great sound, but is there great music? You can still buy Reference Recordings products and decide for yourself.

I would comment that, as most would agree, it is very difficult to believably render the performance of an orchestra in a home listening space. Orchestral music is not forgiving.

I dunno … Wendel seemed to be rising to the role of provocateur. He is old enough for this to be a legitimate role. He tells us that his Mennonite Minister father instilled in him the value of frugality and that he identifies with the frugal sector.

There are really two remarkable things about his secret demo.

First, the unexpected lack of a single Magnepan product in the room. Ergo, he wasn’t selling a product with the demo.

Second, the speakers he was using had been bastardized and molested, yet they sounded good in his room according to listeners. This is another example of your system, your ears. He’d tweaked it into submission.

He said he was selling a concept. My take on the concept is that Martin Logan already discovered it and has been selling it for more than a decade.

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes! That was exactly my point. When I first heard that Wendell had setup an extra special demo room, comprising of some well known stat panels and partnered them with his custom built bass drivers, I was all excited to know more. When I realised he was using a ML stat and no Maggie's at all... I nearly had a hernia!

I was told that this stat could well be the Classic 9, probably not the Impression or Expressions, that would be a crying shame! Anyway, he seems to have gotten the right amount of attention, people are talking! I guess as stated above, this was his very intention. Good old Wendell.

If and when I get a chance to catch up, I'll ask him what the heck is going on but knowing him, he'll probably avoid the question and slowly change the subject. That's him alright.

Very interesting videos, this is what my chaps were referring to, reminded them of a mini Statement concept.
Cheers, RJ

[Big Dog RJ]

Just got off the phone with one of my mates who attended. Good one is that he managed to have a brief chat with Wendell and gathered notes:

1. Wendell and we all know that this is 2023 not 2003.
2. By saying that this dipole to dipole tech, using DSP for the woofers etc., is a new concept coming and hasn't been done quite right before... is actually alluding to the concept being incorporated by Magnepan. The other version of their new flagship design will incorporate this dipole woofer system with dsp and all that.
3. The use of ML stats was just to prove further that these woofer towers gell well with stats. So keeping in mind the sheer speed of stats vs blending an array of bass drivers was possible with the help of dsp software. Therefore, this concept alongside Maggie's ribbon panels, which is a dipole to dipole, will work well.

That particular demo with Maggie's panels partnered with the dedicated woofer tower will be the next special demo... according to Wendell, once the design has been finalised.

Mmm... now that's interesting.
Cheers, RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

It really does sound like he’s trying to follow ML down the DSP path.

I understand what he’s saying … but I am not clear on whether or not he realizes that he’s following ML rather than blazing a new trail.

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes, it may certainly seem like he's following ML but in the case of Magnepan, this is a first. Mags has never incorporated any woofer system alongside their panels or has ever tried to integrate either. Many owners have connected subs and used various forms of sub-woofer configs but from a company point of view, this is a first type of venture for Mags.

Going back in the day, say around early 80's and even earlier, Arnie Nudell introduced his Infinity Servo Static 1's then many were developed along the way, using servo bass controlled woofer systems. Genesis followed this, Inner Sound, ML, even Avant Garde integrated a woofer system with full dsp and parametric equalizer settings. Mags never jumped on the band wagon until now, so Wendell although he says to look out for new Maggie products being in development to be launched soon, in his videos he's always jovial about such things and says that he's promoting the competition. As usual Wendell being funny.

On a funny note though; when the Maggie 30.7's were first introduced, people couldn't really tell exactly how big these multi-panels really were. Wendell did a tour around the US, demoing the 30.7's and nearly always had them set up in smaller rooms, claiming that they can be setup to work well in small rooms. Most of those demos didn't go too well, and some people even walked out of demo sessions. When people actually saw these in person for the first time (including myself) only then did we realize their massive size! They're huge bloody panels, and there's no way they would work in smaller rooms, hell no! So this was all bunk, another load of bollocks from WD himself but it was a funny moment indeed. Let alone the amplification required to fully grip the 30.7's and the numerous configs that the 30.7's could be placed was just mind boggling. Tweeter panels on the inside / outside / in front / towards the sides / at the center... then where the heck do the double bass panels go...? another myriad of placement options, it was just too much to handle. When we were talking on Skype, my mate showed him his room, and he recommended some sort of config that didn't work at all, just about. Not to mention the other numerous Horn speakers located within the same room, plus the triple stacked horns located right behind the position of the 30.7's... WD and our Maggie dealer said that those stacked horns are great! They'd work as diffusers... uh? At the end of the day, my mate returned the 30.7's got back whatever they were worth and now just enjoys his stacked horns. Good on him!

So WD as usual is upto his old gizmos and demos... I hope to see the new Maggie line up but this time with added bass drivers would very interesting indeed. And yes, I guess you could say that they are following others even though they're bit late to the tea party.
I do wish Mags and WD all the best. We'll see what they eventually come up with, I think it's going to be pretty soon.

Until such time, enjoy those finest tunes!
RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

He is still promoting the idea that room size isn’t an important factor in picking speaker size. Last time I checked, Nagnepan advised that if you like little Maggies in your room, you will like big Maggies even better. They had a picture of the 30.7s nearly touching each other in a “wall of sound” kind of display.

I think he would not have had mutilated Martin Logans in his demo if he’d been able to make a small pair of Maggies sound as good.

There was no need to prove the concept. ML has had it available for purchase for ages.

I think the secret room was just to get him out of the middle of the cattle call.

[admin]

I think it is unwise to go down the path of putting large maggies in small rooms. Maybe WD is right and that you can, but I've never heard large maggies sound good in a tiny room. I've heard the LRS sound pretty good in smaller rooms but once you get into their "door sized" offerings, this breaks down quickly. Perhaps others feel different. From personal experience, my 20.1's started to sound their best when I was able to get them 4-5 feet off the walls.

I would also be very surprised if maggies started down the DSP route. Not because it may not work, but because it takes a fair amount of electronics and software to do it right. Magnepan is no where near the size of ML and you need to allocate a lot of people to develop and incorporate DSP properly. Those crossovers on ARC enabled ML's are infinitely more complex than anything ML has done in the past. They're essentially mini-computer. If you want DSP to be managed inside the speaker (vs a reciever), you are looking at a big investment in development.

[Wildcat]

I managed to attend but, given my schedule and Hyatt being greedy when I went to shorten my reservation (for what turned out to be an expensive, dumpy hotel room), I ended up staying over from Saturday afternoon to Sunday only. So, only two half days at the show, vs. the three days I used to do. I was covering accessories in the marketplace, checking out a few rooms when there was time, and caught up with a few industry acquaintances in between all that. Copper Magazine coverage goes online Sunday morning.

Interesting note about PS Audio. On Friday morning before the show, one of the show organizers let Paul open the room a little early. Why? He told Paul to look outside the room...and visitors were lined up in the hallway. The main attractions were the aspen FR30 and aspen FR20 speakers, which they swapped throughout all three days. Later on Saturday, and Sunday morning, were good times to visit the room as there was a lull in traffic. I'll be at PSA on Tuesday if travel goes as planned, so I'll get to hear all the new gadgets without interruption.

A musical highlight was attending a presentation by Elusive Disc/Impex Records. They are doing a "one step" reissue of the classic Getz/Gilberto album, two 45 RPM LPs. This one is the only reissue to have the participation of the Stan Getz estate, and Stan's son Nick Getz was on hand to give a presentation on some of the background behind the album, while Abey Fonn of Impex gave details on the mastering process. I think Abey said that the set will have some unseen photos and some notes and letters from the Getz estate.

Some exhibitors did not appear at the show this year. Eikon Audio, which is Gayle Sanders' new company, was nowhere to be seen. Morrow Audio, the cable company, also was a no-show. The Audio Company from Marietta, GA skipped also--they used to take over a ballroom and display their "million dollar system" which used the large Von Schweikert Ultra 11s. SweetVinyl, MIA also; I hope they are still in business, as they've been hit really hard by the parts shortage and I was told that at one point they had 11,000 SugarCubes (in various models) backordered. Others scaled back their exhibits--Emotiva only had a booth in the marketplace as opposed to one of the meeting rooms they occupied in prior years.