McIntosh MCT500 + MDA200 for SACDs

[AnotherJohnson]

This was pretty straightforward.

As most know, you can’t send the digital output from an SACD to a DAC that has not paid the ransom and is not from the same Marque. Mac transport requires Mac DAC. dCS transport requires dCS DAC. PS Audio transport requires PS Audio DAC, etc.

The MCT500 transport came with the required MCT cable to feed the SADC stream to the MDA 200.

Had to read the manual to see how to turn the MDA200 on. Otherwise, it was all intuitive. I used a pair of Thunderbird XLR interconnects to hook it up to the preamp.

I had listened to Sketches of Spain many times last night, so it’s fresh in my audio memory. The SACD was the best of the six versions I had access to, so that’s what I’m testing with.

The spatial cues and level of detail are excellent. It’s not broken in yet though. My sense is that the Levinson, which is broken in, has the edge in the bass for definition, and in the treble for smoothness.

It sounds very good though right out of the box.

A nice feature is the upgradability of the DA2 module if McIntosh release a DA3 down the road. The cost to upgrade the DA1 to DA2 was only $1000. If I’d bought a C49 preamp with the DA1 installed, I’d have been thrilled with such a modestly priced upgrade path.

[AnotherJohnson]

This set up is really nailing Miles’ trumpet after a 30 minute warm up. Subtle nuances are very clear.

People want to know what modern McIntosh sounds like. If this combo is any indicator, it sounds like crystal clear music.

I can’t listen to this on the Rossini because I don’t have a dCS transport. But I listened to it on the Levinson 5101 and the Marantz SA-KI Ruby last night. The Mac set up is the most expensive of the three … Marantz is $4k, Levinson is $6.5k, McIntosh is $9.5k (at retail).

Unless the McIntosh breaks in backwards and gets worse with more play, I would rank them in that order on this SACD. All are solid and musical, but the sound stage and details get better as you go up in price.

FWIW, the bass is coming into its own too. I don’t know much about McIntosh break in, but this is definitely getting better as it plays.

[admin]

Unfortunately you will not be able to pass DSD from an SACD to an independent DAC (with the except of what I describe below). As I understand it it is a copy right issue so we can thank Sony for that. The reason why only same manufacturer Transport/DAC combo can do this is that they use some proprietary methods which break compatibility.

Technically, I know the Oppo players can output native DSD via HDMI. However, since HDMI is not a standard input for DACs (even if there is an HDMI port on a DAC it's going to be IS2) this will not work. You can find some receivers that would accept the DSD signal but then you are stuck with their internal DACs. So either way, no real universal practical way to get DSD from an SACD to DACs.

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes, the new Mac gear has come quite a long way. Those big blue meters still remain but the actual performance in sound and the way it's presented is quite different from their previous generation. The thick face plates, black glass and all that wonderful glow is mesmerising and is mostly cosmetic but what lies behind that faceplate is something to be discovered.

Similarly ARC and CJ have kept improving their tube designs, pushing the boundaries towards higher definition, through dedicated research and they do make some fine gear. It's certainly nice to see the Classic series still being offered, apart from the new ART series, which is not accessible to a majority of audiophiles.

However, when it comes to the source material or format, I still believe at this stage SACD / DSD is superior. Then of course there's vinyl and it's a whole different dimension, plus some very fine tunes. Just listening to a few LP's from Kenny Burrell and Grant Green, really fine tunes. Not as superior to SACD's but quite different and equally enjoyable in every way. Just need to make sure those grooves are clean and the stylus is all nice and shiny, keeps the surface noise to a minimum and you really hear more music.

Cheers, RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

Unfortunately you will not be able to pass DSD from an SACD to an independent DAC (with the except of what I describe below). As I understand it it is a copy right issue so we can thank Sony for that. The reason why only same manufacturer Transport/DAC combo can do this is that they use some proprietary methods which break compatibility.

Technically, I know the Oppo players can output native DSD via HDMI. However, since HDMI is not a standard input for DACs (even if there is an HDMI port on a DAC it's going to be IS2) this will not work. You can find some receivers that would accept the DSD signal but then you are stuck with their internal DACs. So either way, no real universal practical way to get DSD from an SACD to DACs.

Which was, of course, my stated reason for acquiring the Mac DAC to go with the Mac Transport.

[admin]

Right. It's just overall a shame that this particular audio format requires a setup that excludes 99.8% of all DACs or transport combinations.

You would think that Sony would have designed the format with a way to use external DACs with the format.

[AnotherJohnson]

I’m sure it is a royalty issue.

The Mac DAC was/is driven by curiosity and a large inventory of tradable gear.

The Levinson and Marantz SACD players were a perfectly good way to play SACDs. I see the Mac gear as tuition.

[AnotherJohnson]

Cantate Domino on Propius (SACD) sounds better with the Mac transport and DAC. Turn it up to get those low organ notes. The bass has come into its own.

Great presentation of complex and distinct choral parts. Very smooth upper octaves. Suggested harshness before good warm up is gone.

[AnotherJohnson]

This set up is really nailing Miles’ trumpet after a 30 minute warmup. I listened to it on the Levinson 5101 and the Marantz SA-KI Ruby last night. The Mac set up is the most expensive of the three … Marantz is $4k, Levinson is $6.5k, McIntosh is $9.5k (at retail).

Unless the McIntosh breaks in backwards and gets worse with more play, I would rank them in that order on this SACD. All are solid and musical, but the sound stage and details get better as you go up in price.

After more extensive listening to a wide range of SACDs, I think the Levinson is pulling ahead. It’s just more detailed with better definition of every voice.

These three SACD options are all quite good. Choosing between them is strongly affected by personal preferences. I could live with any of them.

[AnotherJohnson]

Thought I’d play some red book CDs with the MCT 500 to compare the MDA200 to the Rossini.

The MDA200 was connected to the transport by the McIntosh proprietary MCT cable which is good for up to 24/96 according to the McIntosh literature.

The Rossini was connected to the transport by an AQ Diamond 72 VDBS coaxial cable which should be capable of 24/192, and maybe more.

Since red book CDs are 16/44.1, either should be capable.

With this set up and careful level matching you can go back and forth between the DACs to A - B compare them on the fly.

In this experiment, as is often the case, the louder choice seemed to sound better … but once this level matching was sorted out, the Rossini emerged as the clearly more musical, more detailed presentation. Better definition. Tighter bass. Smoother mid range and treble. More separation of instruments and voices.

The MDA 200 is $4k at msrp, so it is not surprising that it does not keep up with the Rossini at about 8 times the msrp.

So … for SACDs, the Levinson seems to really be my best choice. And for CDs, the MCT 500 + Rossini seems to be best of my options.

The MDA200 is very capable. It’s just not the best option here.

[admin]

It's nice to have the ability to compare and contrast like this in your home system as this is where the true differences will come to light.

Sounds like the Rossini is just a clear winner on these fronts.

[AnotherJohnson]

The Rossini is better than I’d expected. I would not have acquired it were it not for the Sabrinas sitting in disuse begging for a trade. In the end I traded several pieces of surplus gear for the factory certified pre-owned Rossini, the new Mac transport and the 25’ NOS (calibrated to my gear) balanced Transparent Reference interconnects (and some cash). A good trade leaves both parties happy. I think this was a good trade.

[audiobill]

I think the dual mono, quad balanced Mac D1100 may best the MDA200. Available preowned for about the same as the MDA200....

[AnotherJohnson]

The D1100 is apparently included as their reference digital preamp (introduced in 2017?).

In the meantime, they’ve added some other digital preamps (C53 comes to mind) with an upgradable digital module.

The current generation of the upgraded module is the DA2.

They’ve also added HDMI as one of the inputs, but there is no headphone amp/jack.

I can’t tell if the D1100 is upgradable. I don’t see it mentioned.

The D1100 is definitely a more traditional McIntosh look, right down to a pair of blue meters.

The MDA200 can be used as a digital preamp, but that’s not how they’re labeling it. It is their only stand alone DAC in their current catalog.

I thought about getting a C53, but it does not have enough balanced inputs for my system and I do not want to fool with unbalanced as I go forward. The only current McIntosh preamp I would consider at this point is the C12000. And the MDA200 would have the digital input “roll to play” if I were to buy one.

I was at another dealer who has both McIntosh and ARC today. This fellow does not have much history with me, but he is a seasoned audiophile. He asked “Why would you even consider replacing REF 250SEs and a REF 6 SE with an MC462 and C12000?” I would not “replace” them without hearing them in my own room. The only way to get a good demo in your own room seems to be to buy or borrow.

For now, I’m doing neither. But is is fun to explore the state of my long ago first love, McIntosh.

[AnotherJohnson]

FWIW, I don’t know where you’re finding D1100s for less than my price on a new MDA200.

I’ve looked and the D1100 is another McIntosh product that seems to be holding a high resale.

[audiobill]

AJ, I got the D1100 for mid $4K from TMR....excellent condition.

[AnotherJohnson]

AJ, I got the D1100 for mid $4K from TMR....excellent condition.

In my opinion, that’s a good price … and perhaps it’s due to the lack of an upgrade path on a digitally focused product. (Or maybe it is upgradable and I just missed it). It’s still at higher cost than mine though. And in my case, the extra preamp oriented stuff, blue meters and such, are a negative.

FWIW, I did look for used McIntosh DACs. Only a couple of D1100s came up at all, and the asking prices were $8k and up (retail appears to still be listed at $7k). So D1100 owners may be hoping for a collectibility phase. I don’t see them selling for over retail yet, but if they start, you are in a good “bought it low” position.

I was pretty focused on McIntosh’s latest stand alone DAC, and that meant DA2. Since McIntosh has adopted the upgrade path concept, I would not have gone for any McIntosh DAC without an upgrade path. Like ARC, McIntosh has not been known for being at the cutting edge of DAC technology. They will have to focus on the future. Even dCS has embraced this future proof idea. I can upgrade the Rossini to the APEX version for “only” about $9k.

Congratulations on finding a D1100 at such a good price!

Instead of being an example of McIntosh holding value, it’s an example that there can be excellent deals at TMR.

[AnotherJohnson]

Looking at McIntosh inventories, they do not acknowledge discontinuation of the D1100 … but I’m only finding it listed among available stock in a couple of places. It is not listed as an orderable item on some of my “go to” dealers.

So … maybe the higher than retail prices reflect an attempt to take advantage of those who would want to collect one in a factory sealed box.

[audiobill]

AJ, for those dollars, I'd look hard at a Weiss 502....


"I summed my measurements of the Weiss DAC202 by writing "The DAC202 is the best-measuring D/A processor I have measured in my quarter-century career at Stereophile. It just doesn't get any better than this." Weiss's DAC502 matched the DAC202 by also performing supremely well on the test bench.—John Atkinson"

[AnotherJohnson]

Not interested in chasing after JA recommendations.
He reminds me of Julian Hirsch.

After extensive listening and comparing over 4 months, the Rossini was, and is, my choice for serious DAC.

It’s bettered by the Vivaldi and Rossini Apex versions, but there are limits, and as I’ve said, compared to any non dCS DACs, the Rossini strikes me as being from another realm.

The McIntosh stuff has been a fun, but unnecessary, diversion. It’s been very interesting to compare so many DACs. (Levinson 5101, Marantz ND8006, Marantz Ruby SA-KI, Node, McIntosh MDA200, dCS Rossini all at home, and many more at showrooms (HiFi Rose, other dCS models, other Levinson and McIntosh models, etc).

I can easily understand why admin and Roberto were so excited about their new Holo Audio May KTE DACs. There is no doubt in my mind that DACs have a very strong influence on the sound of any digital source. I really like the ring DAC concept, and the Rossini’s sound. YMMV