looking to select a CJ preamp for purchase

[jimbones]

OTOH, even if the ACT2 does behave for a while at least... and you do have access to a top techie who can fix anything & everything, it may be worthwhile looking into. Just be prepared to fork out a few more $$$ on fix-ups. That's just the way it is if you're considering used gear at this level. you never know, and most sellers may not tell you "everything." Other than, "oh! It's a great preamp and works really fine"... until you bring it home and it trips a few circuits! There she goes...

Also, be ready to spend more than just the used price, simply because... and this is a higher level preamp, it's an ACT2! This was CJ's top of the line SOTA at the time, so parts aren't cheap... same goes with the GAT or anything of that level.

If I was very budget conscious and wanted to spend wisely on used gear, I would consider the ET3SE and call it a day.
There are other choices out there and the final decision is yours.
Best, RJ

Thanks Big Dog, Jeff @CJ recommends the ET5. I didnt mention the ACT since it happened after I found out about one.

[AnotherJohnson]

Jeff @CJ recommends the ET5.

This is the best advice from your best source.

ET7s2, even better.

But 7 m single ended will still be a risk.

[admin]

If Jeff says ET5, go with the ET5. You just go the opinion of the #1 CJ guy in the world.

[jimbones]

If Jeff says ET5, go with the ET5. You just go the opinion of the #1 CJ guy in the world.

lol I agree lol. I have time to wait for one to come up.

[Big Dog RJ]

Then ET5 it is!
I can see why he recommended the ET5 and his rationale.
The older Premier series preamps, although great in every way, are much older components. They would require a lot of maintenance and constant upgrades to keep them going.
The ACT2 also falls into this vintage category.

The ET3SE is the last one in the entry level category to be discontinued and now they offer the ET6/SE but that's quite pricey. Then there's the ET7/ S2 series, which is at a higher level then the GAT.

So to match well with your Prem12's, the ET5 would be just about right it replaced the ACT2 right after the CT5 and held pretty well until the newer ET series preamps came out. The ET5 is fantastic and so is the CT5. The ET5 is not as old compared to the CT5. Both are tops and will deliver superior performance to the entry level ET series.

See how you go and let us know what you end up with.
Cheers, RJ

[jimbones]

@BigDog, Jeff states that using long IC with the ACT "definitely" wont work. Too bad.

[AnotherJohnson]

Not surprised. I learned what I told you from Jeff.

The bad news is that it’s going to be less than it could be with an ET5 too, even if your ears aren’t discerning the negatives yet. If you’re used to that 7m run, I think you’d be surprised at the improvement that would come from moving things to keep the interconnects under 3 m.

If you were able to run balanced interconnects WITHOUT RESORTING TO ADAPTERS (terrible idea), it would be different. But you can’t, so forget about balanced. Focus on a new layout if you can.

[jimbones]

OTOH, even if the ACT2 does behave for a while at least... and you do have access to a top techie who can fix anything & everything, it may be worthwhile looking into. Just be prepared to fork out a few more $$$ on fix-ups. That's just the way it is if you're considering used gear at this level. you never know, and most sellers may not tell you "everything." Other than, "oh! It's a great preamp and works really fine"... until you bring it home and it trips a few circuits! There she goes...

Also, be ready to spend more than just the used price, simply because... and this is a higher level preamp, it's an ACT2! This was CJ's top of the line SOTA at the time, so parts aren't cheap... same goes with the GAT or anything of that level.

If I was very budget conscious and wanted to spend wisely on used gear, I would consider the ET3SE and call it a day.
There are other choices out there and the final decision is yours.
Best, RJ

Im hoping its big improvement over the Rogue RP7

[jimbones]

Not sure if I should start a new thread or add to this one. does anyone know the differences between an ET5 and ET7? Is the 5 still more desirable? or is the 7?

[AnotherJohnson]

The 7 s2 is the later model with better layout and better parts.

The 5 might be argued to be on the same level as the 6, lower than the 7 s1 or 7s2.

[jimbones]

The 7 s2 is the later model with better layout and better parts.

The 5 might be argued to be on the same level as the 6, lower than the 7 s1 or 7s2.

Hmm I see ET7 for sale but not many 5's.

[AnotherJohnson]

The 5 is recent. The 7s2 is current. The 5 was “retired” and is on the vintage page of the CJ web site.

All of the ET series preamps have been characterized as “close to the GAT” for less money.

I think you would probably like either one.

A 5 should sell for less than a used 7. Maybe even less than a new 6.

If you ask CJ which is better, they will suggest the 7. I have owned two 7s1s and one 7s2. The 7s2 is also owned by both admin and Roberto. They both join me in holding the 7s2 in high regard.

At $13k retail for a new 7s2, it represents CJ’s closest homage to the GAT among their ET preamps.

But you can be very happy with the 5, or the 7s1, and save some bucks.

FWIW, RJ has a highly modified CT5 which he loves. It is a bit older, but the mods he has added please him immensely, and he has been able to resist the ET series without regret.

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes, that's correct. However, what I did and was "allowed" to do with my CT5 was just a one off project. I obtained the required parts from both sides, obtained their blessings and with the help of my trusted CJ techie, got the job done to a whole new level but that's not something I would ever do again, it did cost a pretty penny!

I've tried out these preamps at length, and would say that the ET5 is probably the best ET series preamp in that particular CJ line-up. It was actually meant to surpass the ACT2 series. I would say the overall performance is nearly close to the GAT version 1. Whereas the GATS2 is even more neutral, completely gets out of the way, as if there's no preamp... which is a good thing!

Then came CJ's newest ET series, starting with the ET3SE, ET6, ET7 version 1 and now the ET7S2. All of these latest ET series preamps are very very neutral, and as you go up the chain all the way to the GATS2, the preamp linestage simply disappears! It's marvellous indeed.

Now CJ has introduced another top-end preamp, the ART88, which is supposed to be based on a full Class A circuit, which is fully dependent on the tubes, hence no buffered output stage. According to my trusted mate, he proudly claims that this is definitely CJ's best by far... as we both had very high regards of CJ's original ART preamp, which we both owned back in the day.

We were having a chat just yesterday night, and were debating on the next phase in CJ's line up of preamps... We both came to a conclusion that they will most probably introduce more affordable preamps based on the ART88 design, where their newest preamps won't have buffered output stages, just pure all tube. This will be costly but they will produce them in limited numbers for the top-end line, and will continue another more affordable ET line with buffered outputs. Since their ART series has been really selling quite well, compared to their previous ART line-up. Only a handful of less costly gear will be offered, which will be classed as entry-level, was our prediction. Who knows!

Anyway, getting back to which preamp JB should get, it all depends! This will be solely based on his finances/ budget, system installation and required length for interconnects from preamp to main power amps. The ET5 is a beautiful preamp, and so is the ET7. The ET6 and ET3/SE are about the same level and I wouldn't categorise them into one, definitely not. The ET5 is superior, at least to my ears it was.

It is only at the ET7S2 level and above, where things start to really take off... So, I would categorise the ET5 just under the ET7S2 but on par with the ET7 version 1. Listening to both side by side, there's hardly any difference at all, and it was very hard to point out any improvements, other than slightly more refined in instrument layering and most of all that neutral factor. However, when you audition both the ET5 and the ET7S2, the ET7S2 clearly shows several notches above in overall performance. Not just neutral sounding but it's ability to bring out a more 3D holographic imaging with even greater detail and more depth. This is the ET7S2 greatest strengths. Take that to another level of performance and you enter the GATS2 category.

If you can get hold of either an ET5, ET7 version 1 or even a CT5, that would be really tops! All you would ever need in terms of fine tube preamplification. An ACT2 would be fantastic but they're getting quite old... so just in case be ready to spend further on parts upgrades, you never know.

Cheers, hope you find the one you like and most of all, the right one for your system.
Best, RJ

[jimbones]

Thanks so much RJ!! I want a pre that embodies some of the rich romantic CJ sound, but not too syrupy. So the latest that you say is neutral may not be romantic enough for me Lol. Im thinking ET5 or ET7 S1. There are S2 out there but not sure about that one. The advantage is it is fairly new and still in production..

[Big Dog RJ]

Ah! JB mate, if there are ET7S2 versions available for a good price (reasonable) and well looked after in top condition, just get it! I'll tell you why in a minute.

Yes, the ET7S2 is current production and it's one of CJ's newest ET series preamps, so no issues there. Just make sure you're dealing with a reputable seller or at least he's not a scammer... there are far too many of these types of silly buggers hovering around, you never know. Obviously the price point has to be within your means... perhaps some small talk and negotiations may help.

Now, regarding why I mentioned the ET7S2 is because of two main aspects:

1. It's CJ's newest ET series line-up, and most dealers will still support these preamps, provided you purchase from an authorised dealer. If you've planned on a private sale, just make sure everything is in tack, packing, manual, remote, power cord, and get in touch with CJ direct to verify the serial number so that they're aware of the item, should you require service in the future.

2. Although the ET7S2 is more neutral sounding, I clearly remember that you're using Prem12 amps, correct?
Since the ET7S2 is a more refined and detailed version of the S1 and is somewhat more neutral in sound, when partnered with CJ's older Premier series amplifiers, that neutral to golden glow/ caramel affect sort of gets balanced out. I've tried it, and it works beautifully!

I've listened to a very similar combination comprising of the Prem8A's partnered with the GAT (S1) driving Wlson Alexx speakers. Prior to the Alex's, this owner had the Alexia's and was actually using a Prem11A. His previous preamp was the ACT2 S2, which was actually my one, just after I sold off my ACT2 version 1 to my record / music shop owner.

He got his Prem8A's fully recapped, plonked in KT120's and they drive his Alexx to glorious levels! Then when he added the ET7S2, just for comparison, all those wonderful things the ACT2 was capable of just got a whole lot better. Not just in terms of a more neutral effect but also more naturalness in tonality, far greater depth in soundstage, layering in bass lines and a fantastic level of air and ambience between instruments. The recordings are more lifelike with true timbre and presence, especially in the midrange. So only after he was fully convinced on the ET7S2, he then upgraded to the GAT version 1, and is happy as!

When all this greatness is backed up by the powerful Prem8A's, that presence is not just more formidable but also an effortless drive on the Alexx speakers, one that is very relaxing, wide open full 3D holographic detail and very engaging, with a touch of that sweet golden glow that's actually rendered from the Prem8A's.

That overall finer balance of near perfect neutrality matched with the golden glow power of CJ's former top of the line Prem8A's, driving Wilson Alexx, I would actually say is probably one of the best Wilson & CJ match ups I've experienced to date. Of course the room and other gear, plus accessories plays a critical part of the system as a whole but that combination of preamp to power amps to speakers, he's really done well.

It's a fine combination, and I'll always remember what LJ told me many many years ago..." infact our reference system in-house comprises of Wilson Grand Slams" ... something along those lines. So back then, nearly every CJ Premier series amplifiers were voiced and tested on Wilson's finest. Now, JF uses Zellaton speakers, and these are damn expensive but equally capable of very fine reference quality. They're very highend performance speakers. I guess this is where the ART series DNA is based on.

So, looking at you're Prem12's matched with an ET7S2 should be mighty fine! Even if you get hold of an ET7 version 1, that's still just as good. See how you go and let us know what you end up with.

Cheers mate, RJ

[Big Dog RJ]

Just a small note to JB: you mentioned that you've come across a few ET7 version 1 but not anything on the ET5. That's because the ET5, like I said... was designed so well, it replaced the ACT2 (not the ACT2 S2/S3).

To surpass the overall performance of the ET5 by a fair margin, you would need to consider only the very top, being the GAT series 1 or S2. The ET6 & ET7 were only slightly different not by a far margin, nor the ET7S2. It was the GAT preamps that were more advanced in performance all round, hence the reason why most owners with ET5 would just hold onto them.

Most owners who upgraded from ET5 ended up with the GAT or GATS2. You may also see a few ET7 version 1's floating around... that's because most ET7 owners have either upgraded towards ET7S2 versions or straight to GAT preamps. This is what's happening on most upgraded paths between ET5, ET7 and ET7S2 owner's who want to stick with the CJ marquee. Of others have gone into different brands altogether but it does get quite pricey at the top.

Cheers, RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

RJ, I am reading you as saying that while the ET7 s2 is an advance over the ET5, it is not a large advance.

So logic would suggest that if someone owned neither, and both presented as an option to buy within say a 15% difference in price, that the 7s2 would be the better choice.

I think some would disagree with the idea that the 7s2 and 5 are sonically close enough to dismiss the former.

As for the rich guy scenario that is being characterized as a “big shot” scenario, I’m not sure what comes from whining about other peoples resources and circumstances. If I were a high end salesman, I would be happy to help any customer, all the way up to the million dollar level and beyond.

As for comparing million dollar systems to your home system, the million dollar system may fall short due to a wide range of poor installation choices in most demos. The only million dollar demos I’ve ever heard that made me think that there was something to consider have been at Paragon in Ann Arbor on days when the D’Agostino, Wilson, dCS, Transparent, and Clearaudio high muckity mucks were going to be listening.

FWIW, to my ears there is a greater difference between a $20k system and a $100k system than there is between a $200k system and a $1M system.

But all of this stuff is dependent on many factors.

Don’t forget that it is a good thing if each audiophile loves the sound of his home system best. You ears, your system.

[jimbones]

I have to say CJ owners are the most helpful, passionate but objective group I know. Not the typical fan boy stuff. I really appreciate all the input. I passed on the ET7 S2 because the guy lived in California and only deals in cash. I live in NY. For all I know the guy could ship mean empty box lol. I only deal with buyer/seller protection. Works for both.

[admin]

I have to say CJ owners are the most helpful, passionate but objective group I know. Not the typical fan boy stuff. I really appreciate all the input. I passed on the ET7 S2 because the guy lived in California and only deals in cash. I live in NY. For all I know the guy could ship mean empty box lol. I only deal with buyer/seller protection. Works for both.

I think you made a smart move. As an owner of the ET7s2, obviously I would highly recommend it,... but not at such a high risk. Even using paypal with a seller with good feedback offers some risk. Sending cash to a stranger across the country,... too much risk in my book for any unit.

[AnotherJohnson]

I have to say CJ owners are the most helpful, passionate but objective group I know. Not the typical fan boy stuff. I really appreciate all the input. I passed on the ET7 S2 because the guy lived in California and only deals in cash. I live in NY. For all I know the guy could ship mean empty box lol. I only deal with buyer/seller protection. Works for both.

I would not have gone for that one either. The whole deal has to make sense on all levels.