Is CJ still in business?

[tonye]

Yes that's correct. C1 is Teflon only, no Vishays.
Vishays cost a fair bit, and the more Vishays in there, when all added up Vishays + Teflons + other components equals a pretty penny.

For example; Apart from the Class A mods done on my monoblocks, I remember CJ HQ asking me if I'm ready for the Full SE upgrade... the reason asked was because once this specific upgrade was done, when selling the amps that separate cost of SE upgrades cannot be re-invested, its gone! I was very ready, simply because I'm not selling the amps. So they were a happy bunch and sent across parts.

Re. To Tonye's preamp

In one way having done just the C1 upgrade is actually more sensible and the preamp should hold good value. Either version done still sounds fantastic! Just enjoy it to the fullest and keep it for as long as possible. I think it's time to enjoy those fine tunes!

Cheers, RJ

The CJ website states:

https://conradjohnson.com/project/model ... -upgrades/

Model Upgrades
Conrad-Johnson factory model upgrades install the same parts and circuits that were incorporated in the latest or upgraded model version. An upgraded unit is electrically the same as the original production model.


We offer the following model upgrades:
Preamplifiers
...
ET3 to ET3SE (includes C1 Upgrade)

No, I'm not going to sit down and just "enjoy the preamp"... I bought a non SE unit because I wanted to factory to do the SE upgrade and at the same time check out the preamp in case it needed any kind of work and bring it up as-new condition. I didn't want to buy a used SE unit...

I TOLD Jasmine I wanted the full line stage SE upgrade... we specifically discussed it, I got the emails that describe what the upgrade entails: teflon caps and vishay resistors, no fancy RCA jacks.

She quoted me 1500 and I paid 1500 to do a line stage.... A fair price I thought. I paid 2000 to do my PV9, which includes the phono preamp.

I will be getting a hold of her and finding out WTH happened here.

There we go again with abysmal customer service... can you believe such a F%%% up?

Honestly, the preamp sounds great, the steelieness is going away but if I paid for something that she screwed up I fully expect them to pay for the shipping back and forth to fix it.

I'll open it tomorrow and see what's in there. What a crazy outfit.

You know... I'm pretty pissed off because there's an ET3SE on sale for less than it cost to buy the ET3 and upgrade to what I thought was "SE"... but again, I was OK with paying the extra to have the factory renew the preamp... but now... I'm getting pretty pissed off. I sent Jasmine a nice email. let's see what she says. I also cc'd the original seller, who was in the mail thread with Jasmine, and he also was under the impression that the Vishay caps were part of the upgrade... We'll see.

It's good that I have a DIY Iron Pre Balanced in the making.. that one has Vishay caps, Alps volume knob, expensive transformers... etc...

Jeez.. I better stop typing.

+++

Knob vs. remote.

For some 30 years, my Linn LP12 sat on the top shelf of the Target rack with the PV9 on the shelf below.... so it became 2nd nature for me to turn the volume down before lifting the stylus.. and turning it up after lowering it.... My body memory is still there... I keep looking for the darn volume know... The ET3 is too wide to fit in the Target rack so it sits in the amp rack. I just got to remember to turn it down and then I got to remember which buttons do what. I guess it's just a matter of learning new skills.

OTOH, it is nice to have remote volume control. Those wireless knobs are nice, but that's not what I'm looking for. I already built something like that for my home theater years ago.. a USB based knob, but my current Emotiva processor has a volume knob now...

[Big Dog RJ]

Calm the farm... Tonye, no need to get all aggressive mate.
Relax!

As far as I'm aware, referring to your ET3SE version C1 upgrade, would generally be Teflon caps and no Vishays. I've owned both versions of this preamp. The standard ET3 has normal gold plated SE connections, and that's about it!

The ET3SE version has this:
SE connections upgraded to the Cardas Gold plated type.
Teflon caps
There are ventilation slots located on the far back of the top cover, this is only found on the SE version.

*in addition to the above* JF usually would ask the customer if they would like for Vishay Resistors to be added as part of this Special Edition upgrade. If so then CJ will charge extra for these parts because Vishay resistors aren't cheap! Also, this SE upgrade on Vishays was offered in the past leading upto 2017/18. Thereafter, CJ decided to reserve these special parts for their latest ART series amplifiers, which cost way more than any ET series preamps. If I'm correct, the ET7S2 also has Vishay resistors plus Teflon caps. Anything below the ET7S2 doesn't.

Now, after going through your last post, you've mentioned that CJ Design has charged you around $1500 for the SE upgrade on your ET3SE. Those Teflon caps plus labour charges, which should have also included the Cardas SE/RCA connectors, amounting to $1500 is about right, especially now in 2023.

*IF* CJ Design had also included Vishay resistors or if it was quoted to you and you were to pay... it would be way more than $1500! Believe me, I know!

However, I'd be very very surprised if CJ has included Vishays and Teflons for that upgraded cost of just $1500, that's very reasonable! If they've omitted the Vishays and done only the Teflons and arrived at $1500 charge, that's quite fair. Nothing you can argue with that.

Anyway, I could be wrong since quite a few years have passed since all of my CJ gear went through Full SE upgrades, and that was done over a period of two years. So now things may have changed, I don't know.
However, I believe this is the case and CJ has done nothing wrong other than a C1 upgrade, which is usually adding Teflon caps.

See how you go... I think it would be better to speak to JF directly, other than Admin staff...at least you'll get a honest answer from the chief designer/ owner himself. See what needs to be done, if any, and take it from there.

It's pointless to be aggressive and use profanity towards this site, which has a large number of CJ members who we all respect equally. So take it easy mate, I'm sure JF will sort it out for you.

Best, RJ

[tonye]

The issue is that I asked for the full SE update. Including Vishay resistors. I asked for the price, and I paid that price.

I was surprised it was so reasonable, but that's what I got quoted. I paid it.

So now what? I didn't get what I wanted and it's gonna cost another $250 to ship back and forth.

Does it sound better? Who knows? Likely it will. The preamp sounds great now... BUT, my point is simple, I asked for specific upgrades... and I didn't get them.

Sorry if I came out aggressive... I was just shocked, that's all. I will open her up today and take pictures. The dealer asked me to verify what's inside, hopefully we will figure it out. I believe the dealer has a direct connection to Jeff.

I guess I'm just frustrated... first it was the 2 months it took to get the vacuum tubes for the PV9, then the time it took for CJ to reply to my request for the upgrade... and the time it took for me to nail down exactly what I wanted. Yet, somehow, I got a feeling that my emails weren't being read by the front desk.

Oh well.

[tonye]

Here's a picture of the post "SE" upgrade.

OK... according to the dealer, it looks like it has Vishays in it.

"It looks like it has Vishays. They are the black ones around the tube."

"The orange caps are the remote volume control and do not get touched as they are fixed each."

"SE and C1 are synonymous."

Oh well... so that C1 sticker is not all there is to it.

You guys are dangerous. So now you all know... the "SE" upgrade from the factory includes:

Teflon Caps
Vishay Resistors
A "C1" sticker.

There is no standalone "C1" upgrade from the factory. At least not in their website.

I'm going back to the burn in... I still got either 160 (per Jeff) or 360 (per past history and the dealer ) hours to fully burn it in.

I does sound very good, already.

See you in a few hundred hours.

[admin]

Sounds like it turned out well. I think $1500 for such an upgrade is very reasonable.

Enjoy the tunes.

[tonye]

Yes....

BTW, the way things are now.... dealers are your friends.

[Big Dog RJ]

Ok, that's great!
Also good to know that they've included Vishays... which has been verified by your dealer.

In fact, "good to know" is an understatement! Should say, that's outstanding news! Especially for the cost charged to you. Then I realised, you folks are in the US of A

Whereas, us down unda, have to pay considerably more for such upgrades. 1500 bucks wouldn't even get us a power cord... that is a top level one.

Definitely give it plenty of time to burn-in well, and whiles doing so, enjoy those fine tunes!
Cheers, RJ

[SolderSlinger]

Well.......I hate to disagree, but I do not think Vishay resistors were included with the C1 upgrade. Look at the resistors by the volume control relays. The SE version has Vishay resistors in the volume control circuit. The Vishay resistors used for the volume circuit are a black color with a rectangle shape. Here's a link for an ET3SE to use a visual reference.

https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthr ... hono-Stage

[AnotherJohnson]

Is the plan to hang it on the wall with the top plate off, like a DarTZeel?

Or to listen to it, like a DarTZeel?

If it sounds great, enjoy it!

[tonye]

(1) Hmm.... the resistors by the tube are black... that line stage looks like mine
(2) The deal is did I get what I paid for?

BTW: I got the PV9 opened up to replace the tubes... with it's teflon caps. I'll take some pictures and post it. Pretty nice for an almost 35 year old unit.

[SolderSlinger]

Take a look at the attached file. The resistors in the volume circuitry are not Vishay.

CJ has decontented upgrades. Makes sense due to the crazy price increase of Vishay resistors, and TEFLON capacitors. In the past the C! upgrade would have included 2 more TEFLON capacitors in the power supply section. If I had to guess, with the extremely high prices of ultra premium passive components, I feel CJ is trying to offer the best possible performance increase at the most reasonable price. With that said, I also feel that CJ is not as transparent as necessary when explaining what the upgrade includes and relative cost increase. I would expect a written quote with what the upgrade entails, and if there are other options. Using your ET3 as an example, are there 3 possible upgrades, 1) what you have, 2) with the 2 extra TEFLON caps in PS, and 3) SE.

@AnotherJohnson
Agree with you about enjoying the music, however I want to use ARC as a discussion point. You've posted about SE upgrades. How would you feel if the ARC factory SE upgrade did not include all of the changes that make an SE product an SE product?

CJ is nebulous with what part type is included in a product. Product flyer description is open to wide interpretation. Before JF, after the Premier 11, 12, and 8, CJ amps did not use electrolytic capacitors in the power supply. That lasted up through the LP70S, LP140M, and LP275M. Then later design might have electrolytic capacitors. Flyer wording does not specifically state electrolytic. Only way to really know for sure is contact CJ, with a question that requires a yes or no answer, i.e. "Are electrolytic capacitors used in the power supply?". Another option is to remove the cover and look.

Gets back to cost. Vishay resistors are not stocked by electronic distributors. The smaller wattage boxed shaped versions are approximately $15.00 each, have 500 piece min order, with a 40 week lead time. The larger round 2 watt part is $50.00 with same min order and lead time. CJ products use many different resistor values.

[AnotherJohnson]

Regarding ARC, I don’t know what will happen going forward, but in the past any SE upgrade would have not left the factory without Warren Gehl’s sonic blessing. I am still waiting for the ARC situation to stabilize. The open story is good. The back story … well, we’ll just have to wait and see.

Regarding CJ and their upgrades:

A few years back I had a CA150 that I liked quite well. But I wanted to try the SE upgrade that was listed on the web site.

I talked with the head mugwump and was told to send it in. It would be a two week turnaround.

I sent it in. It may even be documented here on this forum.

Three weeks later I got a call from some contract worker who said “I can’t do the SE upgrade.” “We’re out of the Vishay resistors, and the minimum order is in lots of 100. So no dice.”

I talked to the head mugwump again. The following was offered. “We can do a really great cap upgrade with extra caps to make up for the lack of the Vishays.”

I said no. Just send it back.

So … they gave me a new box, which I didn’t need. But I paid about $200 for round trip shipping. And, it looked to me like the modification had been started and then stopped when the lack of parts was discovered mid job.

It came back. I auditioned it to confirm that it worked, and I sold it.

To offset the negative experience I was offered a “really great deal on converting a GAT to a GAT2, should I ever find and buy a GAT.”

My experience with CJ, and solderslinger knows this better than anyone because he and I have communicated offline, is that CJ is what it is. It is a one man show. They do not have a lot of resources. Stuff does not always get done right. Caveat Emptor is always good advice.

CJ decisions are made based on what’s best for the one man show. I don’t see how it could be any other way. They have to survive.

As for Jasmine and communications through her … she’s got to be Jeff’s aunt or daughter or neighbor or squeeze. No one else with so little knowledge about the operation or the products could possibly survive for so long in that role.

Solderslinger, I’m sure you are right. And I do not disagree. Don’t take my calloused cavalier attitude as argument. It’s really just head shaking indifference. Anyone who reads this thread from the beginning should be able to figure it out.

[tonye]

Oh well, it sounds good but I think this is the last time I go this route.

Once bitten, twice shy.

[AnotherJohnson]

Oh well, it sounds good but I think this is the last time I go this route.

Once bitten, twice shy.

Nevertheless it probably sounds quite good, and it will improve over the next 500 hours. I think you could enjoy it for many years to come.

[tonye]

Just got an email...

+++

Hello Tony,

Confirming the Teflon capacitors and Vishay were installed as discussed. I will mail you an SE update sticker.

Thank you,
Jasmine

+++

And so the story goes.

Preamp does sound good very though. The glare in the upper male voices is gone. Preamp is up to 80 hours.

With previous experience with them teflon caps... I image the midrange will bloom nicely in a month or so... don't know about the Vishays.

Hmm... my phono preamp, the clone Pearl 2, is stuffed with Vishays... that one took about six months to come to its greatness. Around 500 hours.

[AnotherJohnson]

That’s great! It sounds great. Now forget about it and enjoy it.

[tonye]

Well, I'm still here.

Bad news... Jasmine still hasn't shipped the promise sticker, so I figure I'll touch base with her next Monday.

The Really Truly Great News... this thing sounds fantastic.

I've been listening mostly to the Audio Note AN-K LX speakers driven by a clone First Watt SIT3. The sound is really, really good.

Today, I pulled out the Maggie 1.7 from the wall and powered up the clone Aleph 2s.

After five minutes, I shut it all down.

I could hear the breath of the singer, I mean, I was like standing next to the speaker and his throaty breath as he sang came to me in a wave form... Startling! Shocking! it was R.E.A.L.I.S.T.I.C.. I could hear his voice from his chest, the kind of thing you only hear live when you are standing on the stage.

(Edit... Tidal has upgraded their service. this was a 24/96 track).

I shut it down because it's hot and we're trying no to run the AC. I figured I'd be listening for hours and wouldn't do anything for the rest of the day. And the Aleph 2s use 400 watts.. each... Class A MOSFET nirvana.

The Maggies are a PITA to live with. I was really, REALLY hoping the AN would replace them... even with highly tweaked amps...

BTW, I tried the 35w SIT3 into the Maggies about a month ago. It shocked me how great it could be... and that was when the preamp was settling down.

So, yeah, I'm still here. I got a SIT4 coming my way.... but the Aleph 2 with Maggies and the "ET3SE" are a fantastic combination right now.

[admin]

I'm such a big fan of magenpan, I really think they hit higher than their price point when compared to most other speakers. Tonye, you may just have to come to the realization that your a "planar fool" like I am!

In all seriousness, you just prefer the sound compared to traditional speakers like the Audio Note.

So Tidal is now up to 24/96 FLAC? I know they were rolling out this upgrade to improve upon the lossy MQA streams. Hopefully they will release 24/192 FLAC soon like their competitors. I'm sure that is where they are going.

[tonye]

Tidal did roll out 24/192 too. If you look at the bottom right of the screen, where the recording quality shows... the "MAX" option is for "Up to 24-bit, 192 kHz"

I'm using USB2 interfaces to the DACs... so I don't know if they limit that to 24/96... which, BTW sounds terrific to me. I've been recording my LPs to 24/96 WAV for years, finding no real gain with 24/192.

Yes, big planars do sound extremely good. I have the "spare" 12s that I had given my son ( he returned them because they didn't fit in his new apartment). So, I've always wondered, if I got the matching center channel, it would make for an awesome 5 channel surround. But, it would give my wife fits for sure!

[admin]

We've gone a little off topic so I'm going to respond in the other thread that is ongoing about tidal and other gear: https://www.conradjohnsonowners.com/vie ... 853#p24853