The CJ "Golden Glow" - an inquiry

[Paolo]

Hello folks,
First of all, best wishes for 2023 and beyond. Good health and sweet music.

I have a CAV 45 S-2 control amp. It employs 2 EL34's per channel. I pair it with Sonus Faber Guarneri Homage. I like the amp a lot.

IF I wanted more of the CJ "golden glow" presentation, which earlier models of preamp and amp should I be looking at? I would want the newest components that still have at least a taste of that warmth, but after dealing with vintage (circa 1985) MFA gear for many, many years, I don't want to revisit maintenance and upgrade issues. I sold all my old tube gear earlier this year, thank goodness. The CAV 45S-2 is the first CJ unit I've owned.

Mr. Fischel suggested the following:

Preamps to consider would be PREM16 , PREM17 , ET7S2. The ET7S2 is actually a current model. Power amps , LP70 , LP140M , CLASSIC120. The CLASSIC120 is also a current model.

I appreciate any insights you guys can offer.

Mille Grazie,
Paolo

[admin]

Best 2023 wishes to you as well.

I think this is a hard question to answer. The CAV-45s2 is a great unit and in their current lineup. That means you are getting top of the line components that are most likely going to be maintenance free for many years. The issue you have with going to older gear is that they will more likely need repair or replacement work to sound their best. Caps degrade over time. As somebody who has transitioned from vintage CJ gear to more current models (going from PV12AL and Evolution 2000 amp to ET7s2 and ART amps), I can tell you that even though the older models were great, the newer ones are better and more refined. I still think you get that "golden glow" as you put it. It's just more clear, detailed, and better imaged.

As an ET7s2 owner, I can highly recommend it. I don't think you would be disappointed. If you could pair it with one of their current amps (maybe a Classic 120 or higher if the budget permits) then you may get that extra performance from the Sonus Fabers. The homages are rather inefficient speakers so if you want a little more dynamics or well controlled sound at higher volumes, there may be an advantage with upgrading from the CAV-45s2's 60 watts per channel (although I would argue that for moderate listening volumes, 60 quality watts is enough).

I think those suggestions by Mr. Fischel are good. But again, the further you go back in production date, the more maintenance issues are going to come up. So if staying away from that is a major decision making criteria, I would say, the newer the better.

[AnotherJohnson]

ET7s2 and Classic 120.

Or stick with the CAV 45s2.

If you really want the old CJ colored sound, a PV5 and MV52 are probably about as good as it will get … but they’re both in the “very old” category.

[Paolo]

Thank you both, gentlemen. I will continue to research but at this point I will likely remain happy with the CAV 45 S-2. I don't really need more power (watts) because I never play music very loud and the listening room is small. I'm using a pair of REl T5X with the GH's.
One question: can my control amp be used with a tube preamp?

Best wishes,
Paolo

[admin]

It can be used with another preamp with the output of the preamp going into one of the 3 inputs on the CAV45s2. But I guess my question is, what do you expect out of that as I think of a CAV45s2 as a preamp/amp bundle. Why duplicate on the front end?

If you are looking to change the sound, maybe try some tube rolling. That would probably be the cheapest thing to do.

[Paolo]

@admin
Yes, the goal using a tube pre would be to "make the sound warmer." I don't know if that's a fool's errand or not. I likely won't go there.
Meanwhile I just ordered a gold pin EH 6922 from Upscale which will replace a tired old Sylvania.




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[AnotherJohnson]

Not a good idea.

[AnotherJohnson]

Get one of these.

https://www.marantz.com/en-us/product/a ... pBBtlYCwYg

It has tone controls and you can dial in what you want.

The CAV 45 S2 does not have a processing loop to add an equalizer.

[AnotherJohnson]

I’m sure you’ve already read this, but others may be interested.

https://www.stereophile.com/standloudsp ... index.html

You might get more warmth by trying different speaker heights. Or possibly through more bass balanced speaker cables.

They suggest different electronic pairings, and they seemed to be going for neutrality. I’m still thinking PV5 and MV 52, or similar.

But it’s free to try speaker height changes, not terribly expensive to try speaker cables, and not very costly to try the Marantz integrated. What’s the room like? Glass? (Cover it with heavy drapes). How about general speaker and listening chair placement? Can you find an alternative that tilts things more toward bass and midrange?

[Paolo]

I am trying an experiment. I dug an old DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 out my audio closet and hooked it up. It serves as a remote volume control, tone controls, balance, eq device and more.

It’s certainly not purist but I find it quite useful and fun. I’d forgotten I had it. I’m using it between my streamer and the CAV.

[AnotherJohnson]

Cool

[Paolo]

Not a good idea.

I assume you mean the preamp thing not the EH tube….

[AnotherJohnson]

Yes … cascading volume controls is difficult. But you might like it. Too bad the modern units tend to leave off the old pre out amp in jacks with jumpers. Cost is one reason, but going for simplicity in the circuit is another.

[Paolo]

The factory GH stands are about 35" tall, which puts the tweeter at about 46". I'm now wondering if shorter stands might be an improvement. That's something I'll experiment with using temporary supports.

Speaker and IC's are DIY Mogami. Somebody suggested Cardas Clear. Maybe the Cable Company has some suggestions for loaners.

Anyway, thanks again for all the help and excellent info here- I'm havin' fun!

[AnotherJohnson]

Anyway, thanks again for all the help and excellent info here- I'm havin' fun!

That’s the goal!

What kind of music do you like best?

[Paolo]

I’m sure you’ve already read this, but others may be interested.

https://www.stereophile.com/standloudsp ... index.html

You might get more warmth by trying different speaker heights. Or possibly through more bass balanced speaker cables.

They suggest different electronic pairings, and they seemed to be going for neutrality. I’m still thinking PV5 and MV 52, or similar.

But it’s free to try speaker height changes, not terribly expensive to try speaker cables, and not very costly to try the Marantz integrated. What’s the room like? Glass? (Cover it with heavy drapes). How about general speaker and listening chair placement? Can you find an alternative that tilts things more toward bass and midrange?

Hi,
Thanks for the link. I have read it before but a refresh is helpful. I'd love to cover the windows with heavy drapes but we live in the Pacific NW and it's already too dark- I do a lot of listening during the day. I've got 6" thick bass traps in the front corners. I've experimented ad nauseous with speaker and chair placement. So far, speakers about 4.5' from the front wall seems to work quite well. Sometimes I prefer near-field other times I'll move the chair much further back- we have an open floor plan so I can listen in the living room if I want to.

And, I just might get brave enough to dabble in some of the ancient CJ gear if I can find a fantastic "deal." Otherwise, as the Eagles or somebodies said, it's "Love the One You're With". Certainly the Guarneri Homage ain't goin' nowhere.

[Paolo]

Anyway, thanks again for all the help and excellent info here- I'm havin' fun!

That’s the goal!

What kind of music do you like best?

Classical and jazz primarily. And to a lesser extent a lot of other genres except metal, rap, or anything that pummels my psyche and body. I've pretty much lost my taste for a lot of rock n' roll. I try to listen to current pop every so often, but often I find the lyrics banal, stupid, unintelligible or worse. Granted my ears are not what they used to be but....

[AnotherJohnson]

Me too

[Joe Appierto]

as the Eagles or somebodies said

Stephen Stills from his first album released 1970.

[Paolo]

as the Eagles or somebodies said

Stephen Stills from his first album released 1970.

Ah. Yes. Thank you sir.