Conrad Johnson Premier 140 Vs Conrad Johnson Premier twelve

[gregorioo]

After many hours of studying the internet, I decided to buy an amplifier to power the upper part of my Infinity IRS Gamma.
I am currently working on the Line Magnetic 508ia, which sounds beautiful, but unfortunately lacks power - I suspect that this is related to the low impedance of my loudspeakers and in some tracks its power from 48W drops well below the nominal power.

My concerns are also raised by the current efficiency of the amplifiers on the subject.
IRS Gamma sometimes goes down to 2ohm and I'm curious if the amplifiers will withstand it, not necessarily up to their nominal power.
The amps will play from around 100Hz.
Are any of these amps more tolerant of low impedance?
Has anyone of you had the opportunity to compare the model 140 with the model 12?
what are the differences in the sound or the handling and replacement of tubes?
As far as I know, the model 140 is a much newer amp than the model 12, and has the sound been improved?
Thank you for your response

[AnotherJohnson]

Either the Premier 12 or the LP140 (if both are fully functional) will run rings around the 508ia.

Which is better? It will depend on your ears and their actual state of condition, particularly the condition of the caps and the tubes.

Yes, the sound has evolved. The P12 is the old CJ “house sound.” The LP140 is a transitional CJ “house sound.” Both are more “romantic” and less neutral than more recent offerings, or SS.

You asked about handling tubes … maybe one of the tube rollers has an opinion. I tend to prefer stock, or at least factory approved, tubes. My LP275Ms sported the factory KT120 upgrade. I like the KT120s, but I’ve now moved on to other amps powered by KT150s (which I like even more).

[Joe Appierto]

I believe the stock tubes for the Premier 12 amps were GE 6550A which are still available although somewhat pricey. I always found them much to my liking. The Premier 140 came stock with SED =C= 6550C but they're pretty much unobtainable nowadays. The KT120 tubes are quite popular and could be used in either. I was always a bit of a contrarian in preferring the New Sensor Reissue Tung-Sol 6550 when I owned the 11A (I believe the stereo version of the monobloc Pr. 12) and the Premier 140 which I also owned. Should you decide to go with either the 12 or 140 and one or the other is available with the C1 Teflon Capacitor upgrade I'd highly recommend that option. I had the Teflon caps installed by CJ in my 140 and it was a decided improvement over the stock Pr. 140 amp.

[gregorioo]

As I see - you didn't write that one is better or worse.
I got the CJ 140 amplifier for a much better price than 12
Since the 140 is much newer and perhaps the designers over the years have managed to improve something in them and it may be a better choice ...
If the current efficiency is similar, there is probably no point in paying more for 12...

However, looking on the Internet - 6550A tubes are also practically unavailable from current production
here i found 6550C

Is the sound of the amplifier with KT120 tubes also warm and pleasant in longer listening?
Is there any other alternative?


https://www.ebay.com/itm/122358693854?e ... BM4oTd95Vh

6550C i see also in Poland:
https://sklep.lampyelektronowe.pl/?308, ... etlana-(s)

6550a
https://sklep.lampyelektronowe.pl/?1582 ... m-selected

Are ther correct?

Im looking for 6550A and 6550C is really easier to find
Am I right?

[Joe Appierto]

I've never heard the Premier 12 so I didn't comment.

You can use virtually any 6550/A/C/KT88/KT90/KT120 brand tube in these amps and each will give you a slightly different sound. Sometimes a very different sound. If it were me, I'd go with the 140 because it's a newer model.

[AnotherJohnson]

If the LP140 price was because of a distressed owner rather than a distressed unit, I would not look at any Premier 12s in the rear view mirror.

Of course a P12 is closer to the era of your speaker, so if you’re going for a bucket list period correct statement, that could affect your choice.

Your ears are your best advisor. The unless they’re not because the sound isn’t the most important criterion.

[Joe Appierto]

I think the Original Poster isn't referring to the LP140M but rather the earlier stereo unit Premier 140 but I'm not positive. I realize the LP140M is even newer than the Pr. 140 but I'd agree with you in either case AJ unless as you said he's going for a time period.

[AnotherJohnson]

I think the Original Poster isn't referring to the LP140M but rather the earlier stereo unit Premier 140 but I'm not positive. I realize the LP140M is even newer than the Pr. 140 but I'd agree with you in either case AJ unless as you said he's going for a time period.

Of course you are right! I just picked up on the 140 in the post, not the Premier 140 in the title .

My thinking that his ears should be his guide is still my best advice.

I get frustrated with these 30+ year old components and I should recognize that my value system is not for everyone.

Thanks for catching me Joe.

Incidentally, I posted about fuses again. I’m inching closer to the vortex.

[AnotherJohnson]

Regarding the Premier 140, it was the pinnacle of the premier series tube amps. A forerunner of the LP series, and a transition amplifier as far as evolution of the “house sound.”

If I had a P140 I would not be looking for a P12 to replace it unless I was trying to find a premier series amp closer to the speakers’ hey day.

[gregorioo]

Yes, I agree that my ears are my best adviser, but amplifiers are usually more than 1000km away from me and the only way to judge if it's a good choice is to buy it, connect it to the system, play for a few days and then I'll decide if the amplifier is for me or not.
By deduction I found myself here.
The only amplifier in my system that enchanted me is the line magnetic 508ia, but it lacks power.
The SS amps sound flat ( i tested about 7 amps SS) on the IRS Gamma - the sound is between the loudspeakers and has no taste. Only AARON No.3 and Millennium and Classe sounded tolerably, but nothing more than that.
A warm sounding old-style tube amplifier - this is what suits me and not only me the most.

I see that the topic of the LP140M has also been raised here
Should I also consider these amps?
I'm open to suggestions, although I already have the Premier 140 selected and agreed

[AnotherJohnson]

I would sit back and enjoy the Premier 140.

[admin]

I'm open to suggestions, although I already have the Premier 140 selected and agreed

I agree with AJ. I would just enjoy these. If you are really looking to take a significant step up in performance (and price), then I would be looking at CJ's newest amp offerings.

[Joe Appierto]

AJ wrote:

Incidentally, I posted about fuses again. I’m inching closer to the vortex.

I would think of it more as a jacuzzi.

That having been said others might call it a rabbit hole. But you have your head firmly planted on your shoulders and should you venture into fuse-land I know you'll approach it logically with a bit of healthy skepticism but an open mind.

[gregorioo]

Amp Premier 140 order...
I read a bit about replacing the capacitors with Teflon ones.
Is it worth carrying out this operation in the Premier 140 model and what benefits can it bring?
I understand that you can order capacitors directly from CJ and replace them yourself.
Is the cost high?

[AnotherJohnson]

Amp Premier 140 order...
I read a bit about replacing the capacitors with Teflon ones.
Is it worth carrying out this operation in the Premier 140 model and what benefits can it bring?
I understand that you can order capacitors directly from CJ and replace them yourself.
Is the cost high?

The Teflon caps (and other CJ repair or upgrade parts) are NOT available to DIYers. Or to service shops. CJ insists on doing all of their own service, though your local importer my offer other options.

Is it worthwhile? I have enjoyed the Teflon caps myself. It takes s while for them to break in (several hundred hours). Personally though, I would not go through the expense or the wait to have it done on a 20+ year old component.

YMMV

[Joe Appierto]

Whether you should have the C1 Teflon Capacitor upgrade done depends, in my opinion, on what your long-term goals may be and your financial resources, of course. If you view the Premier 140 as a steppingstone and anticipate replacing the amp down the road then probably not. But if you think this may be the end game amp and can swing the cost then I'd do it.

I owned the Pr. 140 and had the C1 upgrade done and the results were all beneficial and not subtle. There was an increase in clarity/detail retrieval, the frequency extremes became more extended, and the soundstage even more solid and dimensional.

Also, the Pr. 140 was introduced in March, 2003 so the oldest models are approaching 20 years old so if you do intend to keep this amp for the long-term updatimg/upgrading the caps would be a smart move. Of course, this is just my 2¢.

[gregorioo]

There is no distributor in my country, and shipping for such an operation abroad is out of the question.
Rather, I would like to carry out the operation locally, but from what you write - it is impossible using the capacitors sent by CJ
I think to send the amplifier to a friendly service anyway because, as someone wrote, the age of the device and 20-year-old capacitors, some of which may already have incorrect parameters - if someone has it on the table anyway, replacing it is a simple matter. ..
Did you perform such an operation yourself or through a local service?
What capacitors would be suitable? - those used by CJ are probably produced by a well-known manufacturer with the CJ imprint.
Is it CJ's secret which capacitors are used and which ones are worth replacing?
I am asking preventively, because it may actually turn out that the amplifier will sound beautiful and there is no point in bothering about it....

Another question about lamps.
Do you use 6550 or other in your amplifiers?
E.g. KT120 or KT150?

[AnotherJohnson]

I am asking preventively, because it may actually turn out that the amplifier will sound beautiful and there is no point in bothering about it....

I’m gonna go with this idea …

[AnotherJohnson]

What capacitors would be suitable? - those used by CJ are probably produced by a well-known manufacturer with the CJ imprint.
Is it CJ's secret which capacitors are used and which ones are worth replacing?

The caps are “proprietary” designs specified by CJ, so they’re not just rebadged common Teflon caps (which, incidentally, may be as good in your application).

CJ has many secrets. Their circuits are simple designs, so they are the target of Asian counterfeiters who do not acknowledge intellectual property rights. You will not get so much as a test point voltage value out of CJ if it’s not already in admin’s data base here.

[admin]

I think CJ caps are proprietary so you can't buy them from anywhere else (to my knowledge).

You can try with alternative caps. Everybody has their favorites. I've used Solen before and they make good caps.