Power Conditioners - APC H15BLK AV 1.5kVA H Type

[AnotherJohnson]

FWIW, your typical house circuit, with 15 amp breaker, can only deliver about 1.8 kW without tripping.

Your pair of Arts may briefly present a load to the house circuit of 1.6 kW, but probably present an average load of no more than a fourth of that.

Your other stuff is likely to present a load of a few hundred watts all together.

My point is that your hum/buzz may be more associated with your current PLC aging out rather than it being under specified.

PLCs use caps too. Open it up and see if you’ve got bulging or leaking caps.

[AnotherJohnson]

FWIW, I spent a lot of time worrying about providing my Krells with juice, even going so far as installing two separate 20 amp dedicated circuits, one for each amp.

It was a waste of time. I hooked up my LP275Ms, and had house wiring ground loop issues.

I talked to JF and he said “You don’t need to worry about that. Just put all your gear on one 15 amp circuit. It will be fine. Listen and see/hear.”

He was right. The actual average load on the house circuit is well below the 1.8 kW limits of a 15 amp breaker.

I doubt very much that the Arts are harder on the house circuit than the LP275Ms.

[roberto]

Admin,

With much respect, I am not too convinced with AJ, I do believe that your ACP does not have enough juice to drive all your system. You never had this before, right? It happened with the arrived of your new big monsters. These mono blocks do really need juice for driving Magneplanar. I think that the ACP is not delivering the right energy to power them.
I do suggest to have 20A dedicated breaker. Sometimes picks of the music demands energy, not all the time but they do, and if you do not have the enough juice to supply it, the dynamics might suffer. I am very sensitive to this, and Magneplanar speakers are power hungry. Just have a listen and carefully check if you have a pan cake thick sound or do you have a truly sense of 3D.

Some might think this is not important, all depends of your liking and the way you listen to the music. I do like a lot dynamics.

Please, keep us posted with your findings.

Happy listening!

[AnotherJohnson]

With all due respect, the amp he had before the Arts was, shall we say, not particularly revealing. Nevertheless, it was probably more powerful than the Arts.

It is harmless to listen and decide for yourself. Always good advice.

Maybe you could get a new PLC on trial. Many vendors will accept returns.

Surely no one disagrees that a PLC could be aging out.

Those who think their system can draw more than 15 amps from a 15 amp breaker in steady state, raise your hand.

Those who aren’t sure what steady state means (that’s when you’re droning on with a fixed signal), raise your hand.

Admin, if I had $3000 to put into a PLC, I’d put it toward sorting out your preamp.

What’s Admin’s system sound like with no PLC?

If you know, raise your hand. I count only one hand.

[roberto]

I would be nice to see if here are good ears too,

[AnotherJohnson]

Of course everyone realizes that the CJ power supply forgives a lot. And the power supply in the Arts is FAR SUPERIOR to the one in admin’s previous amp.

And, of course, everyone realizes that the tubes act as valves controlling how the power supply feeds juice to the actual audio path.

In many ways it is reasonable to recognize that the power supply is in some ways acting as a PLC.

The best thing I can think of in favor of a PLC is that it is a sure way to get rid of issues related to ground loops induced by using multiple duplex outlets, even when those outlets are nominally on the same breaker.

[admin]

So I did a little experimentation the other day. And this is what I found.

1) With the added vinyl acoustic treatment applied to the top cover of the APC unit, the hum is not audible at listening position. I have to get on my hands and knees and put my ear up to the unit to barely perceive it. But of course, it's still there so from a psychologic point of you it bothers me even though I can't hear it when listening to music.

2) If I plug the amps into an alterative power strip (same outlet but the amps now feed off the 2nd terminal), then the buzz is truly gone. So if definitely is the amp load that causes that slight hum.

As for what I plan to do... I'm really thinking of just getting a simple but higher quality power strip to use with the amps. Again, I want the ability to be able to disconnect all my equipment from the main lines as I just don't trust the power in the area. I think I will wait to get my new DAC, which should come in the mail hopefully in the next week or two and then I'll have my final power needs in place. I will most likely keep the rest of the equipment on the APC unit as without the amps there are no issues.

[roberto]

Hola Admin,

The APC is doing a great job there. And definitively the Holo May Kte DAC is safe to be plugged there. You can connect it with no problem. A good power strip with good wattage capability is a good way to go. Your monsters are power hungry. I will try to provide good juice amperes, even that their wattage consumption is not over 15A. I love dynamics, and limiting the wattage will cost low frequency bottom, a little music congestion and dynamics.

I can hear an improvement when I changed the power AC cable to power my Classic Once Twenty SE. The behaviour of the amp was more fun to listen too and difficult music passages are now like a freeway.

Some of you might think this is silly, so I would say, my ears, my system.

Happy listening!

[AnotherJohnson]

PLCs definitely act as voltage clamps and wave shapers.

If someone thinks they improve sound, I can’t argue.

I’ve had some voltage clamps (surge suppressors) that definitely did not enhance sound here. In fact several have led to thinner, tinny sound, so what you feed your gear does have the potential to make things worse. By logic, perhaps that means that the right one could make things better … though I’ve not really ever heard this with my own ears.

We all like to think that purity of sound is the goal. Adding complexity that might help obtain purity might be a step in the right direction if the grid has problems, like variable voltage.

I don’t think listening to the PLC mechanical noise radiating from the box has much to do with how the audio output sounds, though it might be a symptom of other issues that do affect the sound.

I’ve seen some guys try to use uninterruptible power supplies, like would be used to keep from losing data during power interruptions… but I don’t think that would help much if the goal were to purify sound during normal circumstances.

Of course everyone is “right” when it comes to their own system. No argument.

If you do need a voltage clamp due to grid problems, the modern high end audio PLCs might be the least anxiety producing solution to the clamp problem.

[admin]

I don’t think listening to the PLC mechanical noise radiating from the box has much to do with how the audio output sounds, though it might be a symptom of other issues that do affect the sound.

This pretty much sums up my predicament. I tried doing A/B listening tests with the amps connected to the APC vs the wall (via power strip with no filtering/regulation). I can't really hear a difference in the sound quality. The hum from the APC unit does only happen with the amps connected. But it leaves me to wonder if there is some minute decrease in sound quality that I don't perceive or some inherent flaw with the APC (ie just being taxed with too much power draw)? With the small amount of acoustic treatment to the top cover, I can't even hear the hum from listening position anymore,... but I know it's still there.

Ah,... 1st world problems...

[AnotherJohnson]

I tried doing A/B listening tests with the amps connected to the APC vs the wall (via power strip with no filtering/regulation). I can't really hear a difference in the sound quality.

Bingo!
Don’t create problems by hyperlistening for non musical artifacts. If you’re not even sure you’re hearing something, fahgeddaboudit.

[roberto]

Well, then why to bother with the APC, connect everything direct to your mains AC outlets and problem solved.

Happy listening!

[admin]

I mean pretty much for occasional voltage correction, but predominantly for surge protection (both active but also passive, ie pushing a single button and everything is disconnected from the main line). I have also had ground loop problems in the past and the APC may have been part of the solution. There are also some noise filtering done for the digital sources so perhaps some improvement on that side?

[roberto]

why did you make your power AC cables? Did you find any benefit in doing it?

I'm asking all these, because my ears are a believer of a difference for good while using, as an example, heavy gauge power cord. My experience with the VooDoo Black Magic power cable, the first thing that I noticed was that now the light of my lamps do not blink when I turn on the amp. Before, with the Transparent power cord, they did. Also, I can detect a much better deeper musical notes and the amp behaviour is more free, no stress with any kind of music. The music flows beautiful and my CLXs are happy.

Happy listening!

[admin]

The truth is that I made the AC power cord for fun. I had made multiple RCA cables with good results so I wanted to try my hand in power cords. The truth is that I have never really heard a significant difference in my system with different power cords. I do not doubt that it makes a difference in many systems but it just has not been the case in mine (or maybe I can't discern a difference).\

At the end of the day, I like how they look, they are good quality, and it's always nice to have something custom in the system.

[roberto]

Thanks or the explanation...I really thought that you could hear a difference...oh well, is it not that important. The important is to have our system singing the best possible and enjoy the music.

As RJ says: enjoy those fine tunes. I hope the the hurricane is not affecting your area...

Happy listening!

[roberto]

I would like to add this:

https://www.gcaudio.com/tips-tricks/why ... ifference/

Some systems are more sensitive to them...and could make a difference for better.

Happy listening!

[Joe Appierto]

I especially like his Misconception #3 because it is one so often heard from naysayers. A common variation is "the electrical current has been traveling for 10s or 100s of miles before it reached me what difference is the last few feet going to make?" This type of comment will sometimes come from the same person who has some kind of water filtration/treatment for his home's water supply.

[AnotherJohnson]

Nevertheless, the power cord cannot correct anything from the house to the grid. The best power cord would be hard wiring to the grid with code compliant house wiring (which is NO power cord). And if you don’t trust the grid, then hard wire to a PLC you trust and hard wire that to the grid.

Or you could go into generating your own power with LPG or NG. You’ll probably really need a PLC to clean that up.

Listen to the music.

If it sounds better to you with more invested in PLCs, cords, interconnects, and things that look like Dream catchers, who’s to say it’s not better for you with those accoutrements.

But if you are not sure whether or not the emperor really does have new clothes, trust your own ears. You might save yourself a lot of anxiety, not to say money.

[AnotherJohnson]

FWIW, some companies are only too happy to sell you a proprietary power cord for a couple of thousand bucks.

CJ includes with your new unit a power cord that they believe is up to feeding the unit. The hospital grade cord that is included with the more expensive units is fully up to the task.

This is another one of those areas where CJ shows integrity, and others flash marketing hype and BS.

Of course we’re all free to toss the CJ cord and go with something else.

I’ve had several here. My local specialist is always willing to let me audition such things.