ET7-S2 break-in & RCA cable

[kzhtoo]

Hello all,
I found out about this site as I bought my first ever CJ pre-amp ET7-S2 and it’s also my first ever tube gear. The unit is being run-in and has less than 100 hours. If I may ask, I have a few questions.

1. How long does it take to fully break-in ET7-S2? I was told 500 hours if not a thousand. Any rollercoaster ride I should expect during the break-in?

2. Can I break it in with my amp off but cable still connected to pre-amp?

3. What brand and model of RCA cables are known to work well with CJ? I currently have MIT EVO three to pre-amp and Siltech 330i coming out of pre-amp to amp.

My amp is Luxman M10x and speakers are Magico S3. I used Gryphon Diablo 300 for 6 years before I decided to go separate route again. Prior to that I had a number of Pass and Ayre amp/pre-amp combinations.

Thanks in advance. Happy to be a CJ owner, finally.

[Big Dog RJ]

Nice one mate! Congrats on the ET7S2, it's a marvellous preamp!

Re. To break-in, well the norm should be 100 - 200hrs minimum but it can take longer. It all depends on your listening habits and session times. If during the day, the grid is heavily taxed... since everyone's got something powered up. At nights are best, most are sleeping or winding down and you'll hear more of everything, less noise, quieter background and more of the recording.

BTW, nice one on the Magico S3 speakers, really tops! That should be one interesting combination- CJ & Luxman plus Magico's, all really fine gear. Excellent!

The cabling is fine, MIT is very good quality, can't really recommend one over the other and we all use completely different types. I currently use a full Nordost loom- power cords, interconnects, and speaker cables plus AC mains power distribution and filtering are all Nordost. The key factors to excellent cabling is, it must be neutral, transparent and allow more of the music to flow unhindered, and uncoloured. Also make sure you have proper grounding, which I'm sure you've already attended to at this high level of resolution.

One more thing about the ET7S2 break-in is that the nature of Teflons is quite extraordinary, such that at a certain point it won't sound that great. It will be thin, flat and very mediocre. Then it will enhance itself again rising to the occasion and again fall short of anything marvellous... and finally it suddenly kicks in to great heights. It's simply outstanding towards the end, and you'll know when all this happens. Don't worry, you'll know.

Cheers mate, and enjoy those fine tunes!
Woof! RJ

[admin]

As a fellow ET7s2 owner, I completely agree with RJ. I think break in times can be debated back and forth but generally speaking a few hundred hours for optimal performance and there can be some up and down variation along the way. I wouldn't sweat anything more than 500 hours.

You can run it without the amp being on but I would have some kind of source playing music so there is variable input.

I think there are lots of good RCA cables. It comes down to price range when making a selection. Do you have a specific budget in mind?

Sounds like you have a nice system there. The ET7s2 will surely complement the setup. Congrats!

[kzhtoo]

Nice one mate! Congrats on the ET7S2, it's a marvellous preamp!

Re. To break-in, well the norm should be 100 - 200hrs minimum but it can take longer. It all depends on your listening habits and session times. If during the day, the grid is heavily taxed... since everyone's got something powered up. At nights are best, most are sleeping or winding down and you'll hear more of everything, less noise, quieter background and more of the recording.

BTW, nice one on the Magico S3 speakers, really tops! That should be one interesting combination- CJ & Luxman plus Magico's, all really fine gear. Excellent!

The cabling is fine, MIT is very good quality, can't really recommend one over the other and we all use completely different types. I currently use a full Nordost loom- power cords, interconnects, and speaker cables plus AC mains power distribution and filtering are all Nordost. The key factors to excellent cabling is, it must be neutral, transparent and allow more of the music to flow unhindered, and uncoloured. Also make sure you have proper grounding, which I'm sure you've already attended to at this high level of resolution.

One more thing about the ET7S2 break-in is that the nature of Teflons is quite extraordinary, such that at a certain point it won't sound that great. It will be thin, flat and very mediocre. Then it will enhance itself again rising to the occasion and again fall short of anything marvellous... and finally it suddenly kicks in to great heights. It's simply outstanding towards the end, and you'll know when all this happens. Don't worry, you'll know.

Cheers mate, and enjoy those fine tunes!
Woof! RJ

Thank you RJ for the kind words and info.

I’m a little impatient that whenever I have new gear, I tend to break them in even when I’m not in the room or sleeping and don’t stop until I’m convinced it’s broken in.

While knowing many people like to match amp/pre from the same brand, IME it is not a deal breaker for me. I don’t know that if Luxman + CJ is a match made in heaven, but this combo sound great to me so far. Can’t wait until ET7-S2 is fully broken in.

I agree cabling should be neutral. That’s the only way to make sure each cable isn’t getting in the way of other cables in the system.

[kzhtoo]

As a fellow ET7s2 owner, I completely agree with RJ. I think break in times can be debated back and forth but generally speaking a few hundred hours for optimal performance and there can be some up and down variation along the way. I wouldn't sweat anything more than 500 hours.

You can run it without the amp being on but I would have some kind of source playing music so there is variable input.

I think there are lots of good RCA cables. It comes down to price range when making a selection. Do you have a specific budget in mind?

Sounds like you have a nice system there. The ET7s2 will surely complement the setup. Congrats!

Thank you for the reply and info, Admin. Got it! 500 hours it is. So far, I do notice a bit ups and downs. Last night wasn’t particularly good but this morning it sounds almost glorious. I was driving the amp direct from my DAC for few weeks and I think I much prefer ET7-S2 in between. I did prefer a pre-amp in the system from my previous experience, still it’s good to be reminded again.

Yes, this is what I meant. While breaking in, amp is turned off but source is continuously playing and driving the pre-amp.

So far no budget in mind for RCA. Previously I always use XLR throughout and when ET7-S2 arrived, I had to frantically look for RCA cables. I have MIT speaker cables for the Magico, so I tried to match with MIT XLR before, now I have Siltech RCA in between. I do not feel these RCA are limiting in anyway, but maybe down the road, I will experiment.

I also just read your review on ET7-S2. Very encouraging and hoping ET7-S2 will be a keeper in my system.

[roberto]

Hola Kzhtoo,

Admin and I have the same preamp as you do. I love what I am getting with it. I did enjoy very much for the change in sound quality of the ET7-V2 during the break-n time. Having it out of the box, immediately I got a nice experience with it. I did find the unit very nice inside where the difference was huge of what I had previous (the ET7), and with the first 30 hours or so, I got a more organic sound with the bass with much control.

The stage is bigger and much sense of 3D. Also there is more precision regarding the harmonic texture and how about the dynamic? The percussion instruments are played with much realism then before. The transparency is outstanding. The size of the musical instruments and voices are right!...this is what I got.

I'm using a Genalex Gold Lion 6922 with gold pins. This tube had brought to my ears more pleasant sound overall. And also it has a very good signal to noise ratio. My original tube is a Philips E88CC which I replace with the Genalex. I did use the Genalex in my ET7 with excellent results. And the life span of this Genalex is incredible. In the ET7, I used it for about 4 years and had no issues with it. Highly recommended.

Happy listening!

[kzhtoo]

Hola Kzhtoo,

Admin and I have the same preamp as you do. I love what I am getting with it. I did enjoy very much for the change in sound quality of the ET7-V2 during the break-n time. Having it out of the box, immediately I got a nice experience with it. I did find the unit very nice inside where the difference was huge of what I had previous (the ET7), and with the first 30 hours or so, I got a more organic sound with the bass with much control.

The stage is bigger and much sense of 3D. Also there is more precision regarding the harmonic texture and how about the dynamic? The percussion instruments are played with much realism then before. The transparency is outstanding. The size of the musical instruments and voices are right!...this is what I got.

I'm using a Genalex Gold Lion 6922 with gold pins. This tube had brought to my ears more pleasant sound overall. And also it has a very good signal to noise ratio. My original tube is a Philips E88CC which I replace with the Genalex. I did use the Genalex in my ET7 with excellent results. And the life span of this Genalex is incredible. In the ET7, I used it for about 4 years and had no issues with it. Highly recommended.

Happy listening!

Thanks for sharing your experience. It’s good to know many forum members use ET7-S2 and all have great things to say about the model. I think I too am experiencing the goods after some break in time, but still trying to develop a sense of its sound signature.

I haven’t tried open the unit, so do not know what tube I have inside. It’s good to know Genalex gold lion 6922 with gold pins are a good match. A quick google search shows it’s available on Amazon. Is that a good place to buy from?

[Big Dog RJ]

Amazon... mmm... no, not really my kind of place for highend gear or tubes. Anything related to CJ, I go the following route:
1. Source tubes parts and certification for upgrades directly from CJ HQ, afterall they're the one's that made it!
2. Watford Valves UK or if you're in the US, Upscale Audio from Kevin Deal is one if the best!
3. Tube Depot, Tube Store my local supplier Output tubes are my secondary vendors.

I think AJ also buys from Upscale, he's the one who highly recommended Kevin D.

Cheers, RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

My suggestion is not worry about the tube already installed until it is fully broken in itself.

I have owned two ET7s and one ET7s2. The factory installed tube sounds good … until it doesn’t. Then replace it.

Amazon is a mixed bag of legitimate and illegitimate resellers. I would carefully vette any Amazon Marketplace seller before buying tubes from them.

Everyone has their own opinion about tubes. After you’ve tried some, you will too.

The 6922 is a twin triode. That means that both L&R are in the same bottle. When you buy tubes, buy from a vendor who grades the tubes for balanced character on both triodes, low noise, and low microphony. Buy a good grade or you’re throwing your money away.

[AnotherJohnson]

I have owned two ET7s and one ET7s2. The factory installed tube sounds good … until it doesn’t. Then replace it.

“I’ve owned four ET series preamps, and the first sign of tube degradation has always been some audible hiss. Hiss is like white or pink noise.

Kevin Deal says that simply reseating the tube might cause this to stop. So that’s a free thing to try if it happens.

Kevin also says that if a tube is noisy in one device, it might not be in another, so save it for possible future need.

My approach has been to replace small tubes as soon as I notice noise. Some tubes become noisy in a few hundred hours . Others go for thousands of hours. Lately I’ve begun to wonder if the mains regulation doesn’t have some impact on this.

[admin]

I haven’t tried open the unit, so do not know what tube I have inside. It’s good to know Genalex gold lion 6922 with gold pins are a good match. A quick google search shows it’s available on Amazon. Is that a good place to buy from?

As others have mentioned, I wouldn't buy the tubes from Amazon. A reputable tube dealer would be the best way to go. There have been a few topics here on CJO on tube dealer recommendations so you may want to look at those.

Also, agree that letting the current unit "settle" before retubing is probably a prudent way to go.

[roberto]

I have an account with The Tube Store, (thetubestore.com) with great service and also good prices. I agreed with AJ, the one that comes with the unit is a good one. My experience with the Philips E88CC, it last less than a year and got a hissing noise on the left channel. I did change it for the same Philips, made in Holland, and this only last about seven months. With the Genalex, I had it for over three years, and still sounding great, the new owner of the V1 is reporting to me only happy times listening to this fantastic preamp.

When I start to use this wonderful unit, the tube that came with it, is a Philips E88CC. I had a terrible transient noise at the beginning and I thought that the culprit was the preamp, I already apologise to all the members here, because my ears tricked me. It was coming from the file that I was listening to. When I was installing the preamp, I heard inside that something was loose. It was a screw. I did find where it belongs, and because I had on hand a Gold Lion gold pins 6922, I change it. I really like the Genalex Gold Lion 6922.

I do have an illusions sound right here in my golden seat, I have those magnificent musicians playing for me at my virtual stage. The stage is wide and steady, with voices projected to the air, and a lot of harmonic texture of all musical instruments and voices. I am really very happy with the results.

Happy listening¡

[Big Dog RJ]

Although CJ and ARC gear is made of the highest quality parts, their circuits depend heavily upon the tubes. As is the case with ARC gear, you have to replace them with near perfectly matched tubes, nothing else! Otherwise, the gear won't sound right.

With CJ tube gear, their preamps are designed on the classic tube circuit and are Class A based. Hence, they rely upon the tubes to work its magic. Therefore, if there's a noisey tube, hiss, tearing paper or itchy scalp sound... this particular tube cannot be used, even after its reseated. The tubes have to be perfect, dead silent and operate smoothly.

So basically, you have to keep sourcing the tubes that don't make a noise, even if it's after a few months, as was the case with my CT5 lately. Once you've managed to find good tubes and they work with no issues, just let it be without trying to tube roll again... there's no point in this task.

That's the very reason why CJ believes that they've placed the best possible tubes for your gear because they go through the extensive process of sourcing the finest tubes to work optimally in your CJ product. So why mess with it? Even though it may cost a bit more for matched pairs, it's worth every dollar simply because they sound superb!

Roberto recently purchased tubes from a chap called Warren... where his prices were reasonable. Robbo recommends Warren but I haven't bought anything from Warren, only exchanged emails. Seems to be willing to help, so perhaps you could check him out for what it's worth.

Cheers, RJ

[admin]

We discussed some tube shop recommendations in this thread so maybe this would be a good resource: https://www.conradjohnsonowners.com/vie ... php?t=1684

[AnotherJohnson]

Luckily for the OP, no “matching” is required since the ET series preamps just have one tube.

But that single tube does need to be balanced (side to side) and it needs to be selected for low noise and low microphony.

And … don’t worry about any of this until the tube that’s in there starts to tell you about it .

[kzhtoo]

Thank you all for very informative info on how to source the tubes. This is my first tube gear and have much to learn. But apparently I’m in the right place.

Yeah, I’m not in a rush to roll the tube. Just would like to source one or two as spare.

So, from above, in short summary…no Amazon, source the tube from trusted vendor or CJ itself. Got it, I’ll research on a couple of recommendation above and start from there.

[Joe Appierto]

Welcome to the CJO Forum and yes, your synopsis is on the money.

Having just a single tube is a benefit. You just have to make sure the replacement is a good one (sound and hopefully longevity). Sometimes it's a crapshoot but it would be good to have one or two as spares/next in line for just in case and/or when the time comes.

[kzhtoo]

Question. I get a hum when Theater by-pass is engaged. When using CD input with a DAC, there is no hum. Any idea how to resolve this issue? Thanks in advance!

[roberto]

That noise is because in Theatre by-pass all the gain is there...what ai do is the use of Aux or any other input and open the volume up to 70 in the pre amp and use the volume from the receiver or audio processor. I get just silence using it this way. Then I adjust the speaker Home Theater level with the receiver or audio processor. As an example, I have an Anthem audio and video processor. My CLXs are +2dB, the centre channels is at 0 dB and the rear are at -3 dB. Using the pink noise for level adjustment. I don't use the microphone and I do the adjustment with my ears, not the ARC.

[kzhtoo]

Thank you so much. The way you suggested works for me using EPL1 instead of EPL2 Theater by-pass.