AudioQuest, 72 V DBS, rambles

[AnotherJohnson]

Back in recent pre-COVID history, if I ordered custom lengths and AQ accepted the order from my dealer, but then were out of some material to make them, AQ would suck it up and send the next higher model.

I recently ordered three pair of their Wind XLR interconnects. The order was confirmed and status was “shipped.”

No tracking was provided and they should have come by now, so my dealer called today to see “what gives?”

After an hour long discussion with AQ on the phone, it turned out that the Wind series has just been discontinued and they don’t have materials to make them.

But rather than just upgrade the shipment to the next level (Thunderbird), they want to cancel the order.

My dealer is embarrassed. But AQ won’t budge.

My dealer’s pencil is sharp, and he’s done his best to take the sting out of the Thunderbirds. And I’ve given him the go ahead, so Thunderbirds it will be.

I thought about pushing him further, but decided that friends are more important than money. I have been happy with the McKenzies that will be replaced in my system… but after hearing what the 72V DBS could do in the case of the William Tell and Hurricane, I really want to hear what it will do for interconnects.

I’ve been really schooled on these seemingly “impossible to be important” changes. But listening trumps measuring, and so far, listening leads me to preferences… as unlikely as they would seem to be.

[Big Dog RJ]

Good stuff AJ mate!

You'll discover even more finer detail from your favourite recordings. Things that were thought to be impossible... once you actually try high quality accessories then become possible! You only have to try to be convinced. Those who don't try would never know, so they will remain sceptical for life!

I was somewhat aloof when I first tried out Cord, Monster, Kimber, MIT, Van Den Hull, Cardas and so on. As I went up each model, I began to slowly realise the differences, and thought I'd just learn for once. It was all from scratch, so from AC mains distribution, to power outlets to power board and then onto cable accessories. It was getting really exciting... until I finally could afford Nordost and experienced it for the first time, I nearly fell off my seat! Now I'm a believer!

Cheers mate, and let us know how it goes.
RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

It is hard to take that first plunge, isn’t it?!

When I was a hobbiest high end dealer selling from my home in the mid ‘80s, Monster was a relatively new brand. I found the supplier of the unbadged material and was able to (by customer A-B listening comparisons) sell a ton of it because it sounded the same but was half the price.

As I think back on that, I think Monster speaker cable was a dollar a foot … unbelievable expensive compared to 20 cent a foot zip cord. Why would anyone spend so much?

I was not able to find cheap alternatives to LSI Straightwire, Van Den Hull, Litz, etc. But expensive in those days was $40 instead of $5. Now it’s $4000 instead of $250.

Regarding the Thunderbirds, they use double 72v DBS packs, one for the + and one for the -.

Yesterday I listened to quite a few of my references. The Hurricane power cord is definitely audible in terms of detail, which I take to be lower distortion. I don’t hear it as coloration because coloration is a subjective evaluation compared to a subjective baseline.

I am now using both German. AND spoken/sung English for reference. On some vocal works, even my native language can be slightly obfuscated on some performances.

I am presently at the greatest point of clarity I’ve ever achieved. And I do give some credit to the 72v DBS speaker cables and power cord.

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes, agree on those 72v DBS system cables by AQ... there's something going on in there. Whether it's voodoo or science, I'm not sure but I've heard it recently in an all CJ system driving Vandy's CT series speakers, very impressive!

Definitely some science in there, without a doubt!
Cheers, enjoy!
RJ

[admin]

If the 72v DBS system is what your after, I think their Rocket 88 speaker cable is the cheapest entry point. At $1300 for an 8 ft pair of cables, it's in the realm of possibility. I have to admit, this has peaked my interest and would like to hear what all the fuss is about!

[AnotherJohnson]

In my system, I found the Rocket 88s to beat my best home made cables.

I also found the William Tells to beat the Rocket 88s.

[admin]

In my system, I found the Rocket 88s to beat my best home made cables.

I also found the William Tells to beat the Rocket 88s.

I'm sure the higher you go in the line, the better. The problem is that the prices start increasing dramatically. And then you get to those Dragons where the cost of the cables buys you a small house in the midwest!

[Big Dog RJ]

Ha! That's it mate.

And here I was at one point contemplating between Odin's supreme reference series, which costs a small cottage! Hot damn, what a hell of a price tag these things can get up to... sky's the limit I guess. I'll never go there, Valhalla or Tyr2, which I'm currently using is more than adequate! Yet the universe kicks in and some smart chap buys cables at over a 100grand... nice one maaate!

Cheers, and enjoy those finest tooones!
RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

The 1 meter balanced Thunderbirds are $3900/pair. I ordered three pair … SACD to preamp, Phono preamp to preamp, and preamp to amp.

That’s $11,700 plus another thousand for sales tax in most places (not NH) at retail. No, I did not give that much.

But … if I had, that would have been more than I’d given for any other part of my system, including the Sabrinas.

The true high end of this interconnect business is focused on the guys buying $500k+ systems where $100k+ for interconnected “makes sense” (to someone).

As I deliberate over how to dispose of my LP275Ms, I am aware that liberation comes when you finally stop considering what something will bring when you sell it. How else could you justify $350k speakers? Guys that could pay a fair used price of $250k would rather buy new. So the market for used $350k speakers is seriously depressed. This has to be even more true for $30k+ interconnects or cables. And yet these things do sell.

[AnotherJohnson]

The Thunderbirds arrived.

I installed them. Compared to the McKenzies they are replacing, they look like they’re from a different world. They look like they cost 10 times as much (at least that much).

It’s too early to expect me to fully understand them yet. And I could never be a magazine reviewer because I’m stuck in the “believability” loop. It turns out “believability” as a hurdle may be a low bar that can be raised over and over again.

I will say this … it’s another veil down. I never get goose bumps, even in live performances. But I do sit up and take notice of exceptional talent. I’ve been sitting straight backed and alert through some of the best I’ve ever experienced today.

Worth $3900 for 1 meter XLR? I dunno … that’s an awful lot. But they’re making a large impact on the sound here. Maybe they’re worth it. I’m not sending them back.

[admin]

I received the AudioQuest Rocket 88's with the 72v DBS. I'm dying to get it into the system but my recent laserdisc purchase put other plans on hold as I sort all the discs and put them on their shelves. I had to assemble a new shelf as I noticed I was going to run out of space, so that was the progress today.

It will be an interesting comparison to my current more humble Signal Cable Ultra's.

[AnotherJohnson]

I hope the Rocket 88s work as well with the ART to Magnepan set up as they did with the REF75SE to Sabrina set up.

[AnotherJohnson]

A second Hurricane High Current power cord (amp to regenerator) arrived this morning.

So now all we lack is the Sasha DAWs. When I picked up the Thunderbirds yesterday, my friend told me that he’d sold another pair of Sasha DAWs. He’s optimistic that mine will be delivered early, but I’m happy to wait. The Sabrinas are really nice.

[AnotherJohnson]

Regarding the Hurricane High Current braided version … I called AQ to ask questions because pictures indicate that some have the 72v DBS attachment on one and, and some on the other. This looked like a sign of possible counterfeiting, but the authorized dealer insisted AQ had made a change. I called AQ, and they confirmed they’d made the change.

Another official variant is parallel conductor vs braided conductor. That variant appears to be authorized too. And last, there is a low current version too. The low current version is for sources that do not draw much power. I’m not sure why you’d need a $1700 msrp power cord for a low current application… but you could fill several books with what I’m not sure about.

[AnotherJohnson]

So at this point I have what RJ might call a “full AudioQuest 72v DBS loom.” I guess in truth there are still a couple of orher power cords and at least one pair of SE McKenzies (for the Marantz network player) in the mix. Do not full yet.

But it’s

Hurricane from wall to P20.

Hurricane from P20 to amp.

Shunyata from P20 to preamp.

Shunyata from P20 to SACD/DAC.

Shunyata from P20 to Phono preamp.

Stock from P20 to network player.

Thunderbirds from SACD and phono preamp to preamp.

Thunderbirds from preamp to amp.

SE McKenzies from network player to preamp.

And William Tell Zeros from amp to speakers.

That’s over $20k at retail just for wires.

Seems idiotic.

On the bright side, I don’t have $20k in them. But I do have more in them than makes sense. When I started in this hobby over 50 years ago, wire cost would have literally been on the order of $20 to $100.

[admin]

Well, that's some pretty high end cable setup there. I think some may balk at investing that much into the connections, but I think it's all relative. When you start getting into the higher end of the higher end, focus on accessories starts to make more sense.

My connections are not in this league (yet), but I'm really looking forward to getting the AQ Rocket 88's in there and seeing what they can do.

[AnotherJohnson]

The craziest thing is that true high end speaker cables cost more than $20k all by themselves.

[Big Dog RJ]

Ah ha! That's sounds more like it maties. As AJ has embarked on the cables journey... you'll think that this is absolutely ludicrous but when you actually hear the differences, it's awe-inspiring! That's why I keep asking myself whether this is voodoo or science... I just don't know.

As of this stage, I've ordered the next level in Nordost, which is the Valhalla series. Just starting slow with the one pair for now, from pre - power. It's crazy pricing but the performance is just mind blowing, I would think there's some science but it's definitely spooky.

When you've put together high quality gear with high performance speakers and you install such cables, those differences aren't subtle! They make such an impact in total transparency and resolution plus detail in musical instruments, it's absolutely hard to ignore it. At the end you just can't listen without these.

The idea is go for it one pair at a time, and start at the most important point. Although that would seem to be the source gear, that pre to power connection is just as important. It's not necessary to go bonkers... as my good fellow mate in Spore has a full Odin Supreme reference series loom. That loom total in pricing exceeds a pair of ART300's and ART108A's put together! It's bananas if you ask me but such a high performance series in cables, it's just incredible!

This is the point where I ask myself are recordings really that good? And yes, some aren't so great but the ones that are, truly shine on such installations at a remarkable level. It goes to show what the artists are doing and how well the engineers have worked putting it all together. It's just superb!

Once you've managed to acquire such high quality cables and accessories, your system will reach a certain threshold and that's it! There's really no point in trying to overdo things unless there was something lacking. That point of detail retrieval, transparency and resolution is at SOTA levels, so it won't get any better than that unless you do a complete overhaul on the gear itself.

I still firmly believe in my personal benchmark of 40% in improvement. The thing with these bloody Nordost cables is each model you go up, the performance increases to 50%! That 40% benchmark is shattered each time... and that's a serious level of improvement! However, the pricing is the killer, so I'll just go with what I can afford.

I'm very glad to hear that Admin has also made the move into higher cables, you won't be disappointed. You'll hear a lot more of the music from your favourite recordings, and it won't stop there... you'll keep discovering.

Oh! One think I forgot to mention: when upgrading cables, leave some extra spend especially on the speaker cables. This is where you'd want to go for the very best, where it should be at least one model up from the rest of the installation. This was suggested by my trusted Spore mate, initially I thought he was loopey but when I tried it out, I was very surprised. I'm a firm believer now!

Cheers, and a mighty WOOF!
RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

Two extra bits “for the road.”

1. In my personal experiences it seems that my system had to get to the point where differences in cables and interconnects could be audible. The big event that turned the corner seemed to be the P12. I would actually go so far as to divide my system history into pre and post P12 eras. Maybe it is the point where a spending magnitude barrier was broken down. Once you’ve plunked down large green to replace something as basic as your power company, spending on cables and interconnects seems easier. But I’d like to think it’s really a sonic rather than mental threshold.

2. Why haven’t I gone down the fuse rabbit hole? Others seem to take this as a quick step after they’ve added a regenerator. I haven’t because I have never seen any test data to argue that the specialty high dollar fuses actually blow as needed to meet manufacturers specs. Many people hear differences in fuses. But no one compares them to the standard fuses for their protective quality.

[Joe Appierto]

AJ, the following is purely anecdotal based on my own experience with aftermarket fuses over about 20 years plus some other anecdotal reports on different forums. So take it for what it's worth.

I've found that aftermarket fuses tend to blow more easily than the stock OEM fuses the equipment comes with.

The rationale I've seen is that the aftermarket fuses are built to tighter tolerances and therefore will blow in an over-current situation before a generic fuse. A more cynical person might say that it is in the aftermarket manufacturers' best interest to produce fuses that blow more easily.

Either way, just my 2¢.