New CJ ART88 Preamp

[AnotherJohnson]

I don’t think the clickity clack, whether through the speakers, or as mechanical noise from the relays directly, is a serious negative. JF says it’s normal. I’m sure he has chosen the parts and designed the circuit to give the best possible sonic performance.

A CJ flagship component is not something to be considered in a cavalier manner. It will be something to be treasured.

[TTsui]

I have gotten used to the click. Brought it up because I never had it with previous CJ preamps. As long as Jeff says its ok I have no further questions. Now enjoying every bit of it......

[admin]

I have gotten used to the click. Brought it up because I never had it with previous CJ preamps. As long as Jeff says its ok I have no further questions. Now enjoying every bit of it......

Exactly. It does not interfere with the music in any way and I view it as a "quirk" that is unique. Again, for me it's actually an advantage as I don't have a direct line of site to the volume meter so I like to get feedback when changing the volume.

[AnotherJohnson]

I like the audio feedback defense. It is very nice to get audible feedback even if the display is hidden.

[roberto]

My new ET7V2 it is quiet than the previous ET7, and it does the same noice while going up or down. I asked Jeff about this and here is his response:

..."The ET7V2 attenuator employs 12 double pole double throw relays , at the exact multiples of 10,20,30, etc., all 12 relays are activated at the same time. It is common to hear a “tick” noise thru the speakers at these display intervals. This is a result of the relay tapping on the grid of the tube. Sometimes this noise can be reduced by replacing the 6922 tube , but the noise will never completely go away"...

So, being your speakers so sensitive, you might experience this odd noise while using the volume, and it is normal. Sometimes, this unwanted noise is more evident on one channel and it varies...it could be left sometimes or the right sometimes...but the noise is harmless to the electronics and speakers.

On the other hand, the precision of the volume up or down is only 0.7dB, allowing to have the exact level that I want. In other words, one click in my system is almost imperceptible. Two clicks or three, yes. My volume level is always between 25 to 30 in the numbers display. Sometimes I go a little bit more, up to 35 to 40, but this is due to a very low input level recordings.

Your new preamp is a precision jewel. Enjoy it, that odd noise is totally normal, and you get used to it.

Happy listening!

[ELM]

G'day ELM,

Are you still using the ET5 preamp? That's a fantastic combination! ART150 and ET5, right up there. BTW what speakers are you using now and what source gear?
Any Nordost cables in there by any chance? Just curious

Cheers mate, enjoy those fine tunes!
Woof! RJ

Good day RJ. Nice to hear from you too. Hope everything goes well in down under.

I moved to the ART150 a few months ago. Now the amplifier has surpassed its 300 hours running and the sonic characters are stabilising. At the moment I am pleased with the tone and power it rolls out and how it has integrated in my system.

Yes the ET5 is still with me. I have had it for almost 8 years during which I rolled a number of tubes. At present it settles on an early 60's Siemens CCa. Thought of moving to ET7v2 and I am sure enhancement will ensue. The thing is that I prefer the more 'boxy' looking equipment, so the ET5 suits me better aesthetically. Purely a matter of personal taste Naturally the next mission is to align the pre-amp with the ART150 in terms of league of performance but it takes time to save the necessary bucks

Source-wise I have an Accuphase CD player for digital. A Stein Music Aventurin 6 cartridge is mated with the Glanz tonearm for analogue playback.

My speakers are the Marten's Parker Duo. I would have liked to place a pair of moderately sized floor standers at home yet space and the wife acceptance factor are the considerations. Sometimes you realise that there is always a compromise when it comes to family harmony.. That said, the Marten's are able to produce a descent amount of bass to suit the kind of music I mostly listen to which is not too bad.

At the moment I use Siltech cables for interconnect and speakers. Those cables have been in my system for a few years. Since they have served me well, I am too lazy to experiment different brands at this moment.

Cheers
ELM

[Big Dog RJ]

Nice one ELM, enjoy!

I know what you mean by the sheer size of the ET5... exactly the same thing I find with the CT5. So I just kept it! With the added space and much deeper chassis, with a few mods, its performance was further enhanced to such a level, I can't justify the extra spend on the newer gear. If I do ever change the preamp for a superior one, I'll simply do the change over but will still keep the CT5, it's truly unique and a custom type of sound that I wanted. Just marvellous!

Might as well sit back and enjoy those fine tunes! Like I've always said, once your system reaches a certain threshold, just enjoy it as it is! Why change?

Cheers mate, have a good one.
WOOF! RJ

[ELM]

Nice one ELM, enjoy!

I know what you mean by the sheer size of the ET5... exactly the same thing I find with the CT5. So I just kept it! With the added space and much deeper chassis, with a few mods, its performance was further enhanced to such a level, I can't justify the extra spend on the newer gear. If I do ever change the preamp for a superior one, I'll simply do the change over but will still keep the CT5, it's truly unique and a custom type of sound that I wanted. Just marvellous!

Might as well sit back and enjoy those fine tunes! Like I've always said, once your system reaches a certain threshold, just enjoy it as it is! Why change?

Cheers mate, have a good one.
WOOF! RJ

Thanks mate. You too, enjoy your music from the loving CT5!

Cheers, have a nice weekend.
ELM

[whnay1]

I want to address the clicking of the remote volume control on the ART88 and other CJ preamps.

In the ART88 the volume control is on an elevated and carefully damped circuit board. This is a different approach because previous versions of the remote volume control were populated on the main motherboard.

It is essentially a series of custom, stepped film resistors each with its own relay in order to eliminate crosstalk and intra channel EMI/RFI. The clicking is nothing more than the relay activating for that step on the volume control. As you advance up or down there will be a clicking sound from the relay. That is perfectly ok and once the relay is active it drops out of the signal path. Additional caps are used to shunt the volume control from the signal path.

Of course the volume control is connected to the grid on the Line Stage Tube but again that will not generate speaker noise.

The ART88's and all CJ units are actually played in the sound room for a few days in order to discern any noise or other issues and then it is boxed and shipped. The factory tubes are a pair of PCC88's - one for gain and the other for impedance matching. I am a dealer who lives 4 miles from CJ and always watch my customer's units as they are burned in, tested, and boxed.....

Problems can arise in any unit if the tube is noisy. And if it is then it is possible volume clicks can be heard through the speakers. In almost 100% of the time that is a tube.

I have found my ART88 and that of one of my customer friends' to be dead quiet through the speakers. What does go through the speakers is the best sounding CJ Tube Preamp ever in every category.

I have 40 years experience both sales and technical with CJ so please feel free to reach to me anytime.

Bill

[Big Dog RJ]

Nice write up Bill, and thanks for sharing

Just on another topic, similar top line gear; I'm not sure if you're familiar with Matty's hum issues...
He purchased these amplifiers from the UK dealer/ CJ importer Audio Freaks, Branko.

He paid top dollar or shall I say British pounds Sterling for an ET7S2 and an ARTsa power amplifier. Both these units hum! The ARTsa hums like crazy and overheats after 4 hrs. After about 6hrs into play, the hum is so loud, it can be heard from across the living room and is unlistenable, whereas the ET7S2 hum, he manages to tolerate.

Audio Freaks- Branko has labelled Matty as "abnormal " as having highly sensitive hearing and has been utterly rude and arrogant. This type of person shouldn't even be in business, let alone represent a highend brand, such as CJ.
Branko proudly claims that these hums are normal and there's no highend gear in the world that doesn't hum.

We ALL know that CJ gear usually doesn't hum but there have been a few cases reported on this very forum. Ive been dealing with CJ since i was a teen... my good mates use CJ, my dad uses CJ and we ran our own dealership network across the Sth East Asian region for many years, so I'm very familiar with the "quirks" of CJ gear.

However, in the majority of cases with our dedicated system installations, having dedicated AC mains wiring and proper grounding systems, these have resulted in pin drop silence. At this level, such highend gear has to be properly installed. If Branko claims that all highend audio gear and especially CJ hums then he should visit my place in Melbourne and listen for any so called hum or noise. It's so quiet that Branko's pants will fall off!

Even from what you've described in your post, there's dead silence, correct? So you can really enjoy the music during silent and loud passages, every minute detail is reproduced flawlessly, as it ought to especially at this level!

From the day Matty got these amplifiers, they both have hum issues and Audio Freaks being the UK dealer refuses to help this customer, due to having abnormal hearing issues.... c'mon seriously mate!

The Yamaha receiver and McCormack DNA 125 power amp that Matty uses as alternative amplifiers do not hum at all! They're dead silent... so back to the dilemma, why does his CJ gear that cost him nearly 30grand Sterling hums???

Any ideas? Perhaps with your highly regarded technical knowledge, I thought you may have the faintest idea...

Matty has not reached out to Jeff as yet, I'm sure Jeff would know but he's such a decent and humble chap, he doesn't want to upset Branko... uh?
Talk about customer service going topsy-turvy here... shouldn't this be the other way round?

Anyway, sorry for the rant but I will absolutely NOT tolerate any stupid hum coming from any brand, regardless of price, especially after spending 30grand! Hell no! Then again that's me and I'm not Matty but I sincerely believe we need to help this guy but no one is willing to do so, unless he reaches out to Jeff.... which he's hesitant to do so.
So, is there another way I'm asking ...?

Best, RJ

[Big Dog RJ]

I also understand Bill, that if you don't have an answer... most probably you wouldn't want to get involved, perfectly understood. In which case, Matty is back to square one... and that's he HAS to help himself and reach out to JEFF!

Bye for now, RJ

[admin]

It's a very sad situation with Matty and Audio Freaks. But as you say, Matty really needs to help himself at this point.

[whnay1]

CJ equipment is subject to ground loops like any equipment is and it can caused by poor grounding, using too many separate circuits, and a tube that has a shorting problem. It is the most frustrating thing to deal with.

I suggest people call Jay Truitt as he is a CJ Dealer like me and a NASA engineer who knows power issues in and out. His number is 718-644-9222.

[whnay1]

I was a customer site today with the ART88 and the following system and no clicks heard through the speakers:

-Pair of CJ ART 108 Power Amps
-CJ TEA1S3b Phono Preamp
-Taiko Music Server (Beast)
-Lampizator Tube DAC
-Kuzma Stabi-R Turntable, arm, and cartridge
-Kharma db-9's with Diamond Tweeter upgrade
-All Siltech Cables

Not one pop through the speakers nor any excessive noise at all.

[AnotherJohnson]

I was a customer site today with the ART88 and the following system and no clicks heard through the speakers:

-Pair of CJ ART 108 Power Amps
-CJ TEA1S3b Phono Preamp
-Taiko Music Server (Beast)
-Lampizator Tube DAC
-Kuzma Stabi-R Turntable, arm, and cartridge
-Kharma db-9's with Diamond Tweeter upgrade
-All Siltech Cables

Not one pop through the speakers nor any excessive noise at all.

The offending Magicos are quite a bit more sensitive than the Kharmas that you heard today.

JF says it’s normal. So … if one argues that it’s not there, when another can plainly hear it, it makes work for JF to have to play whack-a-mole with more phone calls and emails asking about the noise.

If you’ve got very sensitive speakers and your interconnects and speaker cables are in an antenna configuration (JF’s words, not mine), you might hear some harmless relay noises as you adjust volume. (In admin’s case, the relay noise is beneficial because it gives him useful audio feedback).

If you’ve got insensitive speakers, or if you’re lucky to have avoided the antenna phenomena, you may just hear the relays directly without any extra noise through the speakers. Like the system with the Kharmas.

FWIW, that’s another “heck of a” system. Must be approaching or surpassing a coupla’ hundred K. It would be a shame if it were plagued by extraneous noises.

Regarding Mattie’s system, he’s obviously been bamboozled by the UK importer. I’m not sure how it can be favorable resolved. Roberto and I have the same feeling, and that is that any kind of parallel to the music noise is annoying. I suspect that most of us feel the same way.

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes, all valid points but not anything close to what Matty's experiencing.

Like I said, the ARTsa hum starts out quiet... then after 2 -3hrs it gets louder and after 5-6hrs it's unlistenable. The hum is so loud it can be heard from across the living room... so this is not just a ground loop. In addition to this hum, the transformers also heat up excessively, that is quite hot to the touch, according to Matty.

So this is definitely a rare situation on the ARTsa as well as the ET7S2, which also has a hum. So nothing is quiet or normal with these amplifiers and they both need to be checked out by CJ. After all, Jeff is the designer of the ART amps and he'll know what to do.

I was wondering if any of you have had these sort of issues and if so, what was wrong and how was it fixed... by CJ or another techie.

Obviously none of us have encountered this type of problem with any of our CJ gear, both in the past and present. Looks like Jeff or someone from CJ HQ needs to contacted. This is is only solution for Matty at this stage.

Best, RJ

[admin]

I was wondering if any of you have had these sort of issues and if so, what was wrong and how was it fixed... by CJ or another techie.

I think after many years most people will have issues with at least one unit in their system. I can recall 3 personally.

1) My APC power conditioner died. I was on the phone with APC that day. They mailed me a replacement unit and told me to put the broken one in the shipping box and send it back. Didn't pay a cent. Great service, highly recommend them.

2) One of the panels on my magnepan 20.1 was damaged during shipping. Was on the the phone with magnepan the next day. They were clear that unfortunately the panel had to be shipped to the factory and repaired. Also discussed the pros and cons of a single panel repair vs an entire retrofit. Price was extremely reasonable (especially as it was not under warranty but a direct repair request). Also discussed some of the mods that were made to the speaker. Very nice people. It was shipped back and repaired and has worked wonderfully ever since. Great service, highly recommend them.

3) The sound in my PV12AL started to decrease in quality. The tubes looked ok on inspection. Called CJ directly. Talked to a wonderful gentlemen name Ed (who has now retired) who helped me troubleshoot the problem. It was indeed a dying tube, and suggested a replacement. He then kept me on the phone for an additional half an hour talking about music! Was one of the greatest "customer service" experiences I have ever had and solidified my commitment to CJ.

Nobody enjoys having something fail in their system. Prompt action with the right people usually solves these issues very quickly (or it did in my case). Matty unfortunately has done the exact opposite. Dragged things out with the wrong people who do not want to seem to fix the problems. What can I say?

[AnotherJohnson]

Like I said, the ARTsa hum starts out quiet... then after 2 -3hrs it gets louder and after 5-6hrs it's unlistenable. The hum is so loud it can be heard from across the living room... so this is not just a ground loop. In addition to this hum, the transformers also heat up excessively, that is quite hot to the touch, according to Matty.

This is a failure of transformer lamination and can be fixed by either replacing or rebuilding the offending transformer(s).

I have seen/heard this before and the diagnosis was by CJ over the phone.

[Joe Appierto]

Admin wrote:

Talked to a wonderful gentlemen name Ed (who has now retired) who helped me troubleshoot the problem.

Believe you're referring to Ed Dietmeyer (sp?) who was the voice of CJ's customer service for quite some time. He was a fount of information and always helpful when I'd call them. When I asked him about doing the C1 capacitor upgrade on my 16LS2 he recommended I instead invest in one of CJ's current preamps. He explained that the upgrade would involve replacing 26 caps and at the time would be $4,500 and the result still wouldn't be as good as their current models. I kept the 16LS2 as the new purchase (and the upgrade) were more than I wanted to invest at the time. Instead of trying to sell me he understood and there was zero pressure.

[AnotherJohnson]

I was wondering if any of you have had these sort of issues and if so, what was wrong and how was it fixed... by CJ or another techie.

Matty unfortunately has done the exact opposite. Dragged things out with the wrong people who do not want to seem to fix the problems. What can I say?

This is NOT Matty’s fault.

The contractual agreement between the manufacturer and the foreign based importer is clear. Support falls to the in country importer, not to the manufacturer.

This is not unique to CJ. It is the common model.

In this case, blaming Matty is blaming the victim for the crime.

If CJ deserves any blame, and I do not think they do, it is for contracting with a bad importer.

The blame here is properly placed on Audio Freaks. They obviously have inadequate ability to diagnose or repair units that fail. Or else they’re just dishonest/disingenuous representatives.

FWIW, tube amp transformers fail when they’re run with no load. We already know that Audio Freaks have done this in Matty’s presence.

Getting CJ to knock AF into line would be hard. If AF makes good orders and pays their bills on time, it’s unlikely that there is any basis for severance.

My own data suggest that Matty may not be alone in experiencing bad customer service from AF. If he could get a few others to join a complaint against AF, he might have leverage.

On the other hand, who are we to judge Matty’s interest, or lack of interest in pursuing it? If the money is not critical to his existence, he may prefer the peace of walking away to the “exacerbation of the dark side” that comes from fighting a noncritical battle. It’s just stuff. Life is too short to focus on stuff. Matty may be following the path that works best for him.