Speakers for CJ Premiere Eleven

[Joe Ohm]

Hello people
I was able to get a CJ Premier Eleven. I also have a Yamaha C-80 Preamp and a Sony X222ES CD Player.
What are the best box speakers for this configuration? or at least, what are the features it must have?

Thanks for any answer

[Truth71]

Perhaps we can start the dialogue with:
What's your price Range?
Size of your listening room?
Type(s) of music you most commonly listen to?

[admin]

Yes, we need some parameters. In addition to Truth71's questions, are you considering the used market or does this have to be new? The Premier 11 is going to handle just about every speaker on the market so it really does open up the options.

Also, you may want to consider upgrading some of the other components, most notably the Yamaha C-80. We are talking about a 40 year old preamp. It's a cool classic unit, but really is not going to perform at modern audiophile levels. I personally like the vintage stuff, so nothing wrong with keeping that, but things do progress. I was just recently using a CJ PV-12AL, and I really liked the sound,.. but I have to be honest and say the newer CJ gear greatly outperforms it,... as 30 years of advancement should.

The X225ES has an optical out so another possible upgrade consideration would be to use it as a transport and get a modern DAC. That could really give you some big bang for your buck.

Just options. No right or wrong answer in this hobby.

[Joe Ohm]

First of all, thanks for the answers

I am giving the room an acoustic treatment, yes, I like vintage audio and I also consider used speakers.
I live in Buenos Aires and although there is a variety of equipment and loudspeakers, there is not the abundance of the USA or Europe.
The modern audio has many digital components and for my ears the analog sound is more pleasant.

I listen to everything from Bach to Jeff Beck, through Miles Davis, Brubeck or African choral music.

Sometimes you know what he wants, but you need a reference, someone to confirm...

thanks again

[Truth71]

I agree with admin on all suggestions. I've also used a CJPV12-L as a very cost effective ( and friendly) pairing with a Premier 11A. It's a different sound from my Premier 17LS2, but a greaqt deal less expenses.
What are the dimensions of the room?
Can you give us a sense of what brands of speakers you have access to?

[admin]

I think the premier is going to do well with your musical tastes.

Being open to used will certainly give more options. Is there a price range that you would consider? I think that is an important starting point. We've been talking a lot about Wilson speakers lately here on the forum, their top model is $330k USD,... I presume that is not what you had in mind Our user Anotherjohnson is currently using more "moderately" priced Sabrina's for example. But those I would still classify as "expensive", but of course that is subjective to us all. A bunch of us on here are planar fans, but you mention you want to go with box speakers. We all have our favorites!

What speakers have you liked in the past? Maybe we can start there.

[AnotherJohnson]

At a modest price point, any floorstanders in the Revel Performa3 line are easy to drive, look great, and sound much better than they have any right to sound.

I have owned the M106, M126Be, F208, abd F228Be. All were pleasing, and the F228Be is way better than it’s price.

700 or 800 series B&Ws are nice too. I had the 705S2.

As are the offerings from Sonus Fabre. I have the Liuto monitors.

If you go with stand mounters, get the stands from the same company if you can.

My preference is for Floorstanders.

The Wilson Sabrinas are blossoming here now. In the special paint colors these retailed for about $17k in the USA. But because they have been recently discontinued in favor of the current SabrinaX model, they’re available for around $10k … maybe less second hand.

The down side of the Sabrinas is that they have whet my appetite for the Sasha DAWs.

What brands are readily available in your country?

[AnotherJohnson]

FWIW, I’m running the Sabrinas with an ARC REF 75SE, which is similar in terms of power to your Premier 11. I’ve been quite surprised at how good the bass is in light of the small size of the Sabrinas and the power rating of the REF 75 SE.

My room is 16’x34’ with 10’ ceiling. I’ve got the Sabrinas about 5’ off the front wall and 4’ from the side walls. I’m sitting about 8’ to 9’ away from the plane containing the drivers.

My “room treatment” is in the form of book shelves which control reverberation by diffraction and absorption. The shelves are filled with records, CDs and books.

[Big Dog RJ]

After many auditions and reading through TJ Norton's write up of the Prem11A, he gave it his highest recommendation, he bought the unit! After which I placed several orders and we sold quite a number of these in different iterations, the standard Prem11 and the XS version, which incorporates EL34's and reduces the output by half in Triode mode.

At the time, speakers owned by customers who drove them with the Prem11A that were exceptional in performance: Quad ESL 63's, Paradigm Studio 80/100, Energy Veritas, Infinity Ren90's, Maggie's MG3.5/r, Tannoy Westministers, and Sonus Faber monitors. These were exceptional with the Prem11A but of course old school now...

In the write up done by TJN he used ProAc Tablet minimonitors and one of our customers who had the Quad ESL 63's, ordered a Prem11A from us and also had these same ProAc Tablet monitors, they were superb! Talk about disappearing act and full 3D holographic imaging, simply outstanding!

Sometimes even the most lofty systems of today just can't deliver what that combination did back then, it was truly unique. Whenever I audition something new, my first impressions are always based on those two criteria, the speakers must disappear and the imaging should be right there in front of you in full 3D. If not, I just walk away.

Most of the highend gear now simply can't do this, they're more focused on thunderous power, dynamics and big presence... what for? After all it's not a concert, it's based in our very own living rooms!

There are well known speakers that can still do this, and have all the virtues of being classic transparent transducers but only a handful get it right. Matched with CJ amplification, it's just marvellous!

So to the OP, it's a matter of choice. It's all based on what you're looking for- listening habits, musical tastes, room dimensions and source gear. One other important note* just make sure your preamp is upto standard! The Prem11A is based on CJ's Premier series amplifiers and the matching preamp has to be on par, nothing less! Otherwise you're going to end up with a half baked cake.

Cheers and all the best, RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

Just two cents …

Most high end speakers driven by a high end amp can disappear and project a solid image with both breadth and depth if the recording and front end are up to it too.

The biggest obstacles to getting a good image in your system is your room and your speaker placement.

That is not to say that there isn’t more magic to be had with some speakers and amps compared to others.

I agree that it is often easy to walk away quickly … flat sound isn’t engaging unless you’re in an elevator (or listening casually).

But most people would be well served by optimizing their speaker and seating layout for sound rather than sight. Spousal objections not withstanding.

[Big Dog RJ]

Ah! Yes of course AJ,

That's definitely the case. Proper positioning and careful placement, no doubt will deliver better results. What I was referring to is since of lately, I've auditioned two separate systems comprising of some very very lofty gear (each system was over 600grand). One was at a recent showroom setup, and the other a private demo for invitees at a highend dealer's room.

When I say lofty, I mean realy lofty! The TT rig alone was around 35grand without tone arm or cartridge, the arm alone 15grand. Then comes the Koetsu Wajima another few grand, phonostage plus 20grand, so for the TT rig all up, we're looking at over 50grand. Speakers (brand withheld) were 220grand a pair, amps were another 220grand monoblocks, preamp another 45grand. Digital source gear around 50grand, so all up well over 600grand with cables & accessories. Sound, meh... all over the joint, it was like this huge wall of thunder just hits you in the chest, no imaging at all, soundstage depth lacking, holographic 3D affect forget it, and most of all, lacked musicality. I got a headache within the first few minutes, finished my beer grabbed another piece of blue cheese and I was out!

The majority of our group whom I know quite well, commented the same thing but funny there was one chap who actually liked it, and he placed an order for both the amps and speakers. I guess the room also had a huge factor towards this sort of brash all over the place sound but c'mon...600+grand!!! No where near what we have in terms of real quality music.

So the point I was making, many decades ago regarding the Prem11A with Quads or ProAc's, the sheer brilliance in musicality and imaging is truly remarkable! This lofty system of over 600grand was no where close to that humble Prem11A system even back then! I remember it as clear as a bell, and it's absolutely marvellous once your present system delivers all of those attributes.

Then you can laugh at those half million dollar systems, knowing that the one you've put together at a fraction of that cost delivers wonders! How can they possibly get 600grand worth not musical I just wonder...

Cheers, RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

I agree. There’s a lot of stuff out there in installations, or even showrooms, that doesn’t pass muster.