I took the plunge and upgraded big time!

[AnotherJohnson]

Here’s Paul McGowan on the issue of speaker cable vs interconnect length.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d5WFZx6-2hA

Note that he does not sell cables or interconnects.

He mentions Bluejean (admin’s suggestion too). Also Mogami (famous in the guitar community). He uses some high end AudioQuest.

He is a fan of good balanced interconnects if the gear is properly designed (I assume this means w/o cheap op amps to reconstruct). If you can run balanced, he prefers long interconnects and short speaker wires.

But if you must use RCA (single ended), he suggests that you go with short interconnects and longer speaker wires as has been done here.

There are lots of opinions out there. Some backed up by phase shift or reactance data. But in the end, the ears are the best judge.

If I’m running the LP275Ms, they’re on the floor by the speakers due to their weight and size. CJ does not support balanced, so the SE interconnects have been 3 meters. And the speaker cables have been less than 2 meters.

If I’m running the ARC REF 75SE, the light nature of this single chassis stereo amp allows it to be located next to the preamp. So the balance interconnects are 1 meter and the speaker cables are 10’. I wonder how much that affects the comparison?

[admin]

After finishing his autobiography, it seems like Paul has been around the block and is a pretty straight shooter. It's actually reassuring that he would mention something like Bluejeans cable for someone who sells in the ultra high end market. I'm certainly not claiming that some $50 cable is going to be as good as some high end alternative that costs 500 times as much, but I still think there is solid performance to be had in this hobby for those who are on very limited budgets.

I also agree with his statements that ideally the RCA cables should be shorter than the speaker cables if possible. That has been my experience and I have encountered RCA cables picking up interference, but never encountered the same with speaker cable. Balanced connectors are obviously a good option in really long runs, but that is not something most of us have to worry about in home systems.

[Big Dog RJ]

Those ART300s are something else, truly superb! The pics don't do much justice, rather you have to see these in person. They're pretty big and damn heavy, it took two of us to set up the ART150, and the 300s are even bigger! The KT150 tubes operate smoothly, just cruising along... no sweat! Those should very easily drive your Maggie's.

Btw, Speaking of Maggie's, the first only pair of 30.7's were sold back to the dealer. The chap prefers horns, so it's a highly personal preference I guess. The second only pair of 30.7's were also being sold as that owner preferred the AG Trio Omega horns with the Bass Horn system, it's huuuge!
Takes up about 3/4 of the room.

The ideal set up would be to have the ART300's in the middle or side by side behind the panels, flanked by the rest of the gear centred. Up close these amps are visually stunning! Good stuff matey!

Enjoy those very fine tunes!

Keep us posted on the burn-in process and how the overall performance/ sound has changed over the weeks to months. Should nicely settle in, give it plenty of time!

Woof! RJ

[Big Dog RJ]

Attn: CjayL

How are the ART300's coming along...? has the LF really kicked in by now?

According to my fellow CJ mate, once the mids & highs are nicely settled, it takes bit longer for the bass to settle. At first it seems bit bloated but as the amps run in, one of the strengths of the KT150 tubes is the total grip on the bass. Now just bass but the full spec in LF detail is quite different from the norm and really gets it right. Very similar to SS grip and control.

I have the opportunity to get the ART150 right now but although I do like them, I have developed a preference towards Class A bias, so I'll probably end up with the ART108A's eventually.

The heart of any high quality system is the main power amplifier. Once this is set, everything else will revolve around it, except the room. That's a whole different thing and must gel absolutely well with the speakers.

Also wanted to know how your Art88 is going? This is supposed to be a phenomenal preamp, CJ's very best in SOTA in preamps. The thing is when you have this combination, you really can't tell which one is contributing to the performance enhancement... obviously both are but which one would be more critical... I would think it's the amplifiers.

Just wanted to know your thoughts, since it's been a while...
Hopefully not too long to properly burn-in.
Cheers, RJ

[Big Dog RJ]

Any updates CjayL... on the ART300's and the Art88?
How are those big Maggie's performing now?

[Cjaylundgren]

Sorry for the delay in responding, just tied up with normal family items.

The ART88 is, in my opinion, just the finest tube Preamp that I have heard, let at least able to own. It is clearly superior to my recent GATS2, which is no slouch either. The sound stage is huge, instruments are dead accurate in placement in that huge soundstage. Music just comes to life with a crystal clear accuracy that lets you listen to the music and not the speakers. Drumsticks hitting cymbals is scary, it just sounds so crisp and crystal clear.

The Maggie 3.7’s are really liking the jump in power from the Premier 12’s to the ART300 monos. They are really starting to sing now.

Now, to complicate the picture; I just returned from the Capital Audio Fest in Rockville, MD this past weekend. After listening to the all CJ system (ART108A’s, ART88, TEA1S3b, Kuzma arm/table, Lampozator DAC, Khama speakers, not sure of cabling) in the 20/20 Evolution dealer room at the show, I may be convinced, with a possible pending trade-in deal, to trade in the ART300’s for a pair of the absolutely awesome ART108A monos. These amps are fast and crystal clear in their presentation, just amazing. It’s a tough decision, but will probably be the last set of amps I’ll purchase.

I had a very interesting conversation with Jeff in the hotel lobby. He explained the whole concept of the ART108, design improvements, and the key to the amp’s presentation; the regulated power supply for the tube output stage. Jeff is one smart dude, he is passionate about his work and takes it very seriously, just a truly dedicated individual. I could talk to him all day about this hobby.

More to come on the possible trade up to the ART108’s…..

[AnotherJohnson]

That's really exciting! JF is one of Audio’s greats. Always patient. Always insightful.

The ART 108As are undoubtedly the best yet. And a perfect match for the ART 88.

FWIW there is MUCH more going on between the Premier 12 and ART 300s than the increase in power, although the Maggies are sure to benefit from the power jump.

You’re hearing several decades of advances in the art of amplification. Of course you knew that.

[Big Dog RJ]

Ah! There he is...

Ok, that's a great transition from ART300s to ART108A's, if that option is viable. I was told that these Class A amplifiers have that special effect on tonality and its full presence. Nothing really comes soft or woolly... if that makes sense. The LF grip and drive is the most significant aspect of Class A output, which I've heard myself. These amps are supposed to be able to compete with the top of the line SS gear that's known for that LF heft and control - Boulder, Dartzeel, CH Precision, Pass Labs & Vitus to name a few.

Great stuff indeed! Let us know how it all goes.
Brilliant! Cheers, RJ

[admin]

Very exciting. Sounds like the system is being taken to the next level. It would definitely be interesting to see what the ART108's could do with the ART88.

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes or better still, what the ART108A's offer more of compared to the ART300's. After all, the ART300's are not toys nor are they small lovable things... their design and power supplies are truly tops, right up there!

These are both extremely powerful amplifiers in every sense of the term "power amplifiers," although given the high power, on the loudest passages of playback, we're actually only hearing about 20- 40w the most. The human ear can't tolerate 100s & 100s of watts, so it's not all about power. This is domestic hifi gear not rock concert levels.

Larger amplifiers with well designed power supplies are able to deliver dynamic peaks, and handle lower impedences with ease, of course provided the speakers are high performance! Far less strain on their power supplies, and this is the key ingredient, the power supplies of Class A output.

Should really take those Maggie 3.7i's to another level, although I would have preferred either the MG20.7 or the 30.7's. Those ART300's driving the 30.7's would have been a whole new level of experience, for me at least. I've auditioned the MG30.7's and helped a very good mate of mine set up his 30.7's as well. They were the very first pair to arrive in Aus. However, he's now sold them off, since he prefers his triple stacked Klipsch horns, driven with a full array of McIntosh amplifiers. That's a thunderous presentation! And I mean real thunder!

Cheers mate, all the best, and do let us know how it goes.
Woof! RJ

[admin]

The Maggie 3.7’s are really liking the jump in power from the Premier 12’s to the ART300 monos. They are really starting to sing now.

Question: Have you considered upgrading the speakers to a Magnepan 20.7 or 30.7? The 3.7's are amazing speakers so not like it's a bad choice, I just see you really reaching for the top of top in terms of hardware. Do you think maybe going to a higher tier speaker in the magnepan line would be the next upgrade?

[AnotherJohnson]

The Maggie 3.7’s are really liking the jump in power from the Premier 12’s to the ART300 monos. They are really starting to sing now.

Question: Have you considered upgrading the speakers to a Magnepan 20.7 or 30.7? The 3.7's are amazing speakers so not like it's a bad choice, I just see you really reaching for the top of top in terms of hardware. Do you think maybe going to a higher tier speaker in the magnepan line would be the next upgrade?

This system is what Kevin Deal would describe as over amped and under speakered.

The cure is $30k into serious speakers … and probably another $10k into wires.

I wish I were joking, but I’m dead serious.

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes, I agree. The previous amps being used were the Prem12's and that's going way back to the golden years...
That combination with any of CJ's Premier series preamps driving the middle order Maggie's would have been fine! I've used very similar combinations driving the MG3.5, 3.6 and 3.7 before the i series was launched.

Then onto MG20.1 and had plenty of experience with the 20.7's and 30.7's. This is where the Maggie's really shift gears, from the MG20.1 upwards...

So it may seem as a waste of amplification having CJ's top of the line driving the middle order 3.7i's...
However, as our good mate Robbo says, your system your ears! So perhaps the owner simply loves his 3.7i's and there's absolutely nothing lacking. So basically, who are we to judge! We all mean well... but he must be just very pleased with what the cream of crop in CJ amp design must be doing with those 3.7i's.

After all, the 3.7i's are true vfm, there's absolutely nothing that comes close in that price range, and perhaps he's got the perfect room! So by placing in larger Maggie's, this might actually ruin the whole equation... I don't know.

What's the story mate? Do let us know, and we'll all help you spend your ha!
Cheers, RJ

*correction * I just noticed that in his last post, these are not the 3.7i Maggie's, rather the 3.7. I've owned those! They're fine but the 3.7i's were the better of the two as currently being Maggie's top tier within the MG3 series ribbons.

[Big Dog RJ]

Ah! Reading the earlier posts... he's planning on upgrading to the MG20.7's... also a bigger room is being built, which will be dedicated to audio.

All our questions have been answered, now we can all relax... cheers maties!
RJ

[admin]

I can't imagine what CJ's top of the line amp and preamp partnered with the 20.7/30.7 could do, but I'm sure the results would be amazing. For me personally that would be an "end system."

[Big Dog RJ]

You've already got an "end game" system there Admin!

That's definitely top notch- ET7S2 partnered with the ART monoblocks driving MG20's. What else is required?
Wouldn't change a thing, unless you were absolutely desperate and had a truck load of cash!

In my particular case, as I've always pondered about the ultimate, I don't think it really exists. Although, I could say that Aries Ceret gear with their reference horn speakers at $1mil buckaroos seemed to be the ultimate... compared to other lofty gear, Wilson's, Rockport, Magico's etc., but like I said there's always one more round the corner to surpass even the ultimate. And the vicious cycle continues!

At this stage, that's it for me! I'm only looking, listening and learning about new things, after all that's a much better way to experience the top tier gear without going homeless!

Having said that, in time to come I will be downsizing... looking at either an integrated SS amp to drive the CLX's or a SS power amp and just keep the CT5. I just love it! So I'm not looking out to write any more cheques nor wire transfers to overseas dealers to obtain the ultimate, no thanks. There's a limit to this madness and it's my end game in having to maintain all this present tube gear! Going from just 8 output tubes to 16 output tubes is bad enough, on top the other small signal tubes have to considered.

Prices aren't going down at all... in fact going up! The regular coffee I used to buy at 7- Eleven was just 1$ now the same small cuppa is $3.00 & the damn thing tastes awful!
It was worth just $1 though!

Oh! I will hold onto the CLX's though, and as you said go down unda with them... ha!

Cheers matey, keep those fine tunes playing!
Woof! RJ

[admin]

You've already got an "end game" system there Admin!

That's definitely top notch- ET7S2 partnered with the ART monoblocks driving MG20's. What else is required?
Wouldn't change a thing, unless you were absolutely desperate and had a truck load of cash!

As always, RJ is right. No need to chase after the latest when already satisfied. But the new units do look (and sound) amazing.

[Big Dog RJ]

There is always room for improvement, there's absolutely no doubt in that! The question is, how far do you really want to go? Are you prepared to deal with the additional costs in tube maintenance, check components, equipment requirements and of course the never ending upgrades in accessories: cables, interconnects, grounding systems, AC mains distribution and it is a never ending list.

The moment you add in a superior component, the rest of the gear seems lacking... then you begin to wonder is it the front end source gear or speakers and the vicious cycle continues...

At the end, the cycle of upgrades regardless of price because you can very easily spend over a million if heed be, it cycles back to the music. I sincerely believe, whatever system you've put together over the years has been carefully designed and selected to cater to personal preferences. If you're extremely happy with it and look forward to hearing it often, that simply means you're enjoying the music! It also means that it has reached a certain threshold. Once that threshold has been reached, you can sit back and proudly admire your achievements.

To further change all of this synergy and cohesiveness means that something was lacking in the first place, so then we begin to compare and try different things. Absolutely nothing wrong with that but there has to be a point of reference where you can begin and end on.

Many audiophiles in this hobby / passion tend to take things too far to the point where it becomes an obsession. They also don't have a point of reference. They start to lose focus in the music, instead focus on gear...and it never ends. The music was great in the first place but they couldn't see it that way, always thinking about the so called better product...

At one point it will all cave in... we get older and lose our critical hearing, so what's the point in trying to obtain the ultimate when the full spectrum can't be heard. I would say enjoy while you can! Go for the best that you can possibly afford, without going homeless. Obviously depending on finances, tread carefully, choose wisely and learn about how these upgrades are done. They're usually a few tweaks done by the designer, priced at a premium and everyone goes bonkers... it's a trend to keep business running.

Having said that, there's some truth to these superior models and they will bring about the very best in quality recordings. However, the other system you've carefully put together over decades was and is just as good! So sit back and enjoy it, and that's exactly what I'm doing! I'm done for now, more or less... just thinking about the options in downsizing. I like to keep things simple, the music is more enjoyable!

Cheers, and enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ

[Big Dog RJ]

Just to be clear, I don't want to discourage anyone who's planning on upgrading their existing gear, by all means go for it!

That's certainly not my intention to downplay any superior model, not at all. If you read my post carefully, you'll get the point I'm trying make. I've heard the ART300'S driving the same speakers that I have, which are the CLX's and it's been my point of reference ever since.

Now my good mate has the ART108A's driving his CLX's and he says that this is a must have must listen top level Class A monoblocks. I guess, a new point of reference. Most probably it is, I wouldn't disagree. However, for me considering all aspects at this stage, I've cancelled the purchase due to various other priorities. I still do enjoy the "music " immensely on the existing gear and the CLX's as well. So I'm very passionate about that achievement so far.

As to those who have ordered the ART series top of line, you've done very well! Should be proud, and make sure your focus is on the music, not the gear.

Cheers, RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

Chris Rock once proclaimed that men were only as faithful as their opportunities.

Upgrading can be like that too.

If you’re cruising Audio Expo shows, high end stores, Audiogon or Audiomart, eventually something will pique your curiosity.