Regenerator and my CJ monoblocks

[AnotherJohnson]

Here’s a link to the one at TMR


https://tmraudio.com/ps-audio-directstr ... or-used-2/

I’ve set mine up for 117 which in practice is giving 117.3 to 117.5. Perfect for my ARC Reference system.

It gives a very easily discerned improvement to nearly every reproduction.

Don’t leave home without it.

[AnotherJohnson]

I couldn’t wait until tomorrow morning.

So I’ve set up my test system tonight.

SA-KI Ruby SACD/CD/ DAC single ended into

LS28SE single ended into

LP275Ms via bespoke speaker cables into

Sonus Faber Liutos.

All stock power cords plugged into Niagara 1200.

Niagara 1200 via Monsoon power cord into wall.

No other tweaks or changes. No cleaning of interconnects. Nothing special done to get rid of hum except JF’s recommendation to plug everything into one duplex outlet.

The end result is PERFECT. Quiet as a dead cricket. No hiss. No hum.

I’m listening to this

image.jpg (3.92 MiB) Viewed 24313 times

image.jpg (2.82 MiB) Viewed 24313 times

Here’s the set up.

image.jpg (3.66 MiB) Viewed 24313 times

[Joe Appierto]

I like the album especially when they dub her and her father together.

Why the LP275Ms and the P12 don't play together nicely is a puzzlement. You'd be doing the exact same thing if you'd been using the P12. Sigh.

[AnotherJohnson]

I don’t know how the active P12 handles ground among outlets. The passive Niagara 1200 must handle the grounds in a way that forces the two LP275Ms to act as one.

I wired the room at the other house so that all outlets in the audio area are on the same ground bar in the breaker box. Jeff said this didn’t matter because the audio system could find loops in the house wiring. I knew he was nuts. But I followed his advice then, and it worked.

It has worked again. The P12 may have some paths that affect my amps. Note that the hum was present without the P12 too. When I plugged each amp into the duplex outlets at the wall, it hummed just like at the other house. It just wasn’t as bad as it was with the P12.

I think that if you’re considering the P12 to use with CJ monoblocks, you will want a 30 day money back trial. You may not have any trouble. But better safe than sorry.

When the Wilson’s get here, at least I’ll be able to test them on both the CJ and ARC amps.

The ARC Reference system loves the P12.
The LP275Ms don’t appear to.

[admin]

AJ,
What happened with the issue of the CJ LP275Ms flipping the breaker on the P12? Did that resolve?

Also, did you try plugging the LP275Ms into different plugs on the P12? Different plugs may have unique components in the pathways which could influence ground loops. I've observed this in the past with my APC voltage regulator. I know they often designate some plugs as "high current", but you don't necessarily have to use those plugs for the amps,.... or at least not on my unit.

[AnotherJohnson]

It will never get plugged into the P12 here again. I’d rather listen to music than try to figure out why every time the CJ monoblocks get moved, they are temperamental about their power.

There was nothing done to the LP275Ms to change anything, so I’m sure the P12 won’t like them any better today than it did earlier in the week.

Their behavior is a known behavior .., the solution comes from CJ, not some guy selling $2000 fuses.

So … someone else can run those experiments. I can move any of these components in the picture into or out of a one passive power strip system, including the Niagara 1200. I’ve had every one play fine together in mix ‘n match mode.

I can move every one of these components to the P12 without any problems EXCEPT the LP275Ms … the LP275Ms don’t behave well on the P12. The P12 recognizes there’s something not right and quits.

Frankly, I don’t think there’s a thing wrong with the P12. It’s doing what it’s supposed to do. And I don’t think there’s a thing off spec with the LP275Ms either. They behave predictably and CJ knows and will advise you how to install it right. That is, they know how to make the problem go away.

The amps sound great. They’re just finicky about the power.

[AnotherJohnson]

Marantz SE sources handle the ground issue by making the only ground present the one on the next component via the SE interconnect’s shield.

Joe handled his via cheater plugs. RJ says he’s had to deal with it too, at least on some level.

Some gear actually used to include a ground lift switch. In the old ungrounded residential duplex outlets, CJ used to recommend that you try the permanently attached zip wire power cord “both ways,” ie flip the plug and choose the quieter.

For whatever reason, whether the preamp is Krell, CJ, ARC, or other, when the LP275Ms have both the SE interconnect shield ground AND a plug ground to go to, a ground loop will be established. JF’s solution forces every component with a plug ground together, and the Marantz with no plug ground comes along via the interconnect shield.

The fact that this has happened in four buildings, and that it was present when I took delivery from CJ, and that CJ had the cure to share immediately with no head scratching, and that the cure ALWAYS works, brings me a warm fuzzy feeling.

These amps are as they should be. They are incredibly quiet. They are incredibly dynamic. They can control any speaker load presented. They make pure music.

But they need to be installed with the whole system on one power strip. The Niagara 1200 fills the bill.

Maybe the ART series is different, so YMMV.

[Joe Appierto]

In the old ungrounded residential duplex outlets, CJ used to recommend that you try the permanently attached zip wire power cord “both ways,” ie flip the plug and choose the quieter.

And that actually worked with my PV10AL/10A. I'd read about it in a Corey Greenberg Stereophile review of the 10A, tried it and darn one orientation was quieter than the other.

[roberto]

Hola, just guessing, do you think that the P12 is under power driving both monsters? Do you have all components connected to the P12? Perhaps this is the problem. I read that the P12 is rated to have enough power up to 10A...is this correct? Some peaks might have over it.

Just thinking loud, and I of course, might be totally wrong.

Have fun with the music!

[AnotherJohnson]

Good ideas, but not in play.

The wall has no 10 amp limit, and the LP275Ms buzz there too. In fact, without everything plugged into one power strip, the LP275Ms have buzzed in four different buildings. Apparently the active P12 grounds are not wired up as a simple power strip.

No I’m not going to take it apart.

No I’m not going to try to analyze it beyond what I’ve already done.

My problem is solved. JF’s common power strip solution to the rescue

[AnotherJohnson]

Hola, just guessing, do you think that the P12 is under power driving both monsters? Do you have all components connected to the P12? Perhaps this is the problem. I read that the P12 is rated to have enough power up to 10A...is this correct? Some peaks might have over it.

Just thinking loud, and I of course, might be totally wrong.

Have fun with the music!

FWIW, the P12 can handle a very large surge current.

FWIW#2, you will never get to the point of playing music because the hum starts on power up. I could not listen to it. It builds up and shuts the P12 down. Plugged into the wall instead of the P12, it’s super annoying.

FWIW #3, I dug around a bit on the internet, and there are others who’ve reported compatibility issues between CJ monoblocks and PS Audio Power Plants.

[roberto]

Can you address this problem with PS-AUDIO? They might have a solution for it...another guess. JF is a box of solutions. He really knows CJ products. Getting back to PS Audio, they might know too how you can use the Monsters (with much respect) along the P12.

If the noise is volume dependant, then do this: Power them off, and disconnect the audio cables. Connected them back to the P12 and turn them on. Is there hum? If not, check if the audio cables are touching any AC power cord, this could be an induced 60Hz hum.

[AnotherJohnson]

It is not a PS Audio problem. It is a quirk of the amps.

PS Audio has NOTHING to do with the fact that, until you plug the whole system into a common power strip
fed by one wall outlet, there will be hum with the LP monoblocks. Swap for Levinson or ARC amp … no hum. The hum isn’t due to the P12. The P12 recognizes the problem of the LP monoblock ground loop, and goes into protection mode.

This is not peculiar to my samples. It was JF who explained it and shared the cure. It is a very easy cure. And there is no sonic compromise when the cure is in place.

I don’t need this solution with any other brand.

I like CJ sound … but their reputation for exuding quirky charm is well earned.

[roberto]

Understood.

[AnotherJohnson]

Understood.

A stereo chassis CJ may not do this.

More recent CJ monoblocks might not either.

I don’t know.

I do know that they sound superb when they’re installed per JF’s instructions.

I guess maybe what you’re suggesting is that PS Audio could make a modified version of the Power Plant that would make it look more like a power strip. Seems unlikely to me.

The modern day equivalent of the old Dunn & Bradstreet says that CJ is maybe a $5M/yr company at biggest. There’s just not enough CJ gear out there to make a special option economically viable.

[AnotherJohnson]

I eliminated the hum when I installed a cheater plug on the 11A and the 140. I then bought an inexpensive isolation transformer which I plugged in between the incoming cable and the leads going to my set-top-box and the second lead going to the modem/router. Without the use of the cheater plug the hum disappeared.

Re: Cheater plugs.

My CJ system at the other house is officially closed down since all the components but the turntable have either been sold, traded, or brought to the new house.

I was grabbing some last bits from the rack today, and there in the detritus were three cheater plugs. I think they arrived here back when I was trying to replace my Linn LP12s with VPI sourced TTs.

The VPI built TTs (Classic 3 Signature and Levinson) are the only other components that have given me serious hum headaches. Levinson has moved on … their most recent Levinson badged TT was built by Clearaudio. The old HW19 was easy to ground. More recent models have been problematic as evidenced by the posts on the VPI forum.

I am intolerant of any kind of noise in intended silence. I disagree with Kevin Deal that hiss is normal and acceptable. I want silent passages to be silent.

But … since we were talking about cheater plugs, I commiserate with you … I have used them.

[AnotherJohnson]

Here’s an experiment I might try.

Plug all the components with the LP275Ms into a power strip (not a conditioner since PS Audio recommends against that).

Plug the power strip into the high current section of the P12.

I predict that that might kill the hum … but as Roberto points out, it may be too much for the P12. I will look for the power strip I was using in the CJ system before I got the Niagara 1200.

The Power Plant high current plugs are “soft start.” Paul McGowan told one questioner that there was nothing he could do for amps that had a very large start up current draw. A dedicated 20 amp circuit running the 20 amp mode of the P20 is the best presently possible in the Power Plant series.

[AnotherJohnson]

I think the punchline for this is that if you buy a PS Audio Power Regenerator to run big CJ monoblocks, buy it from someone who will give you a no risk trial period.

[Joe Appierto]

A large current inrush can most definitely be problematic. My CA200 seems to draw a lot of current when going from stanbdby to on. I have blown both stock and aftermarket fuses doing so. I know this isn't your problem but thought I'd share.

The fuse I got from the Netherlands is an XLT-type (extra slow blow) from HiFi-Tuning which was specifically designed to help in a situation like this. It does work as intended but I prefer their now discontinued SilverStar fuses which I find a little more detailed. That's what I'm using now. I've found that when I do have to shut down the CA200 to change power cords, for example, never to do so very early in the morning when the drain on the electrical grid is at its lowest. The combination of bringing it from standby very early and on the weekend is really flirting with trouble.

Sorry for the tangent.

I'd wondered about plugging everything into one power strip but didn't know if you'd be receptive to that.

[AnotherJohnson]

I'd wondered about plugging everything into one power strip but didn't know if you'd be receptive to that.

After having this hum issue resolved by this solution in four different buildings, I really think this is the only solution. It was Jeff’s go to solution right at the outset.