“New” Linn LP12 Klimax

[Big Dog RJ]

So basically, "Are we there yet?" ... not quite.

[AnotherJohnson]

So basically, "Are we there yet?" ... not quite.

If you move 40% of the way to the target, on any repeating schedule, you never get there.

[Big Dog RJ]

Ha Ha! So basically, Are we there yet?... not quite yet!

Cheers mate.
RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

1615F3A1-B60A-4CF3-8971-7A8D7555F950.jpeg (3.18 MiB) Viewed 1979 times

This is the album that Tom was playing when he was doing the final tweaks on my LP12.

Iran across it on my shelf tonight and decided to play it.

What a great list of musicians. Chuck Rainey, Joe Sample, Larry Carlton, Bernard Perdie, Mark Knopfler and many more. Mastered by Bob Ludwig. Of course Donald Fagen and Walter Becker were known for using great studio musicians on their projects.

The level of detail and sense of space is beyond any other time I’ve listened to this recording, in any format

[AnotherJohnson]

I had Tom set up my other LP12 this past week.

Great work! A true artist. If you’re in the US or Canada, it’s worth the trip to Ann Arbor to have him work his magic on your deck.

He’s heading to the 50th Anniversary party in Glasgow later this month.

[AnotherJohnson]

FWIW, the LP12 I had Tom set up last week is one that I’d cobbled together from the castoffs from the high spec LP12 build.

The plinth is a Greeves of Sheffield supplied stock plinth of Aframosia wood. The top plate does have the corner fixing. The sub chassis is the Kore. The arm is a late model Ittok with the larger diameter arm pillar. It tested at 64 swings, well above the acceptable level.

The cartridge is a Lyra Kleos and it checked out as very good with only light wear.

The power supply/Motor/controller package is Edmond’s Mober Maxxon with DC Swiss motor. It can be set for either 45 or 33.3 rpm with the push of a button and it’s on the money.

Tom ended up spending a lot of time getting the proper pistonic bounce out of the suspension, but ended up with success after going through a handful of springs.

As part of the setup, Tom installed a Tramp 2 bottom plate.

All in all, this is a very nice LP12 and it sounds grand. Nearly as open and musical as the high spec model.

I don’t need a second LP12, so this one will either get sold or it will sit on my shelf as a spare until the kids sort it out at the end.

[admin]

Very cool. TT setup is truly as much of an art as it is a science. Chances are there is nobody else in the entire world with that specific TT and setup. Very cool.

[AnotherJohnson]

I’ve done my own builds and set ups for decades, but I know enough to respect a master. Tom is getting close to retirement. I’m glad I had him do both decks before that happy day.

[AnotherJohnson]

FWiW, the higher spec LP12 sports the Radikal Maxxon DC Motor and controller, the Keel sub chassis, the Karousel bearing, the Tramp 2, the Ekos SE arm, Harban plinth, latest too plate, Lyra Etna cartridge, etc.

I had the Urika phono stage at one point, but sold it in favor of the CJ TEA1. I’m now running the ARC REF Phono 3.

Both decks are in the system as of today. This is a nice feature of the ARC REF Phono preamps. I can switch between inputs via the remote, and also choose gains and loads easily for each input. I’ve moved the TTs using the custom tuned Transparent Reference series 25’ long balanced interconnects. The REF Phono 3 is by the TTs, connected by the Linn black arm cables. The Transparents are at line level between the REF Phono 3 and the REF 6SE.

[AnotherJohnson]

The 25’ custom tuned Transparent Reference XLR are even better than the 1m Thunderbirds were in the old location.

I wasn’t sure how this would go. I really like the Thunderbirds and was concerned that the Transparent Reference might fall short. The Transparent Ultras weren’t competitive with the Thunderbirds.

I’ve been spinning vinyl tonight to check out Tom’s work.

Three things I’ve noticed. First, both decks are excellent. I could happily live with either one.

Second, differences in phono cartridge loading are more audible than ever before in my system. TEA1, TEA2MAX, SP20, PH5, PH8, and REF Phono 3 have all shown only subtle differences in my earlier systems. And reviewers have commented on this too. ARC lets you change load on the fly, but everyone who I’ve talked to whose done this has been surprised by how much less a difference it seems to make with tube phono stages compared to solid state. As my gear is set up now, changes are still not dramatic, but they are more discernible.

Last, the sophistication of the Etna/Ekos SE combination in juxtaposition to the slightly more coarse presentation of the Kleos/Ittok is more pronounced. I could be happy with either I think, but the advantages of the higher level deck are there to hear, and choose if you like.

[AnotherJohnson]

The cartridge load differences are really easy to discern on both of my decks now. That’s really been the biggest surprise.

I recently upgraded the Lyra Etna to the Lyra Etna Lambda model. Alan Taffel’s assessment in the current issue of TAS (No. 338) strikes me as valid. It was his reminder that Lyra would give you a 50% credit for your original Etna.

At this point for me it’s all about delayering and presentation of detail. If you want euphonious smoothing, or taming, or a tone control effect, you’ll be disappointed. It is neutral, dynamic, fast, and detailed. I can’t believe how fast the meters are jumping on the REF 250SEs.

[admin]

How hard was the setup for the new cartridge? You've spoken a lot about the difficulty with setting up the Linn properly and how that is a fine art that few posses. Did you just swap the cartridge or was there something more involved?

[AnotherJohnson]

The cartridge load differences are really easy to discern on both of my decks now. That’s really been the biggest surprise.

The obvious question is “why?”

My speculations are:

The REF 6SE and REF Phono 3 are now broken in and showing off their incredible ability to present detail.

The Sasha DAWs are the most capable speakers I’ve ever had here.

The Thunderbird Zeros and Transparent Reference interconnects and speaker cables are exceptionally non obfuscating.

My power is cleaner than ever due to the regenerators and the fancy power cords.


For whatever reason, cartridge load changes have always been easy to hear with my solid state phono preamps and former systems. But cartridge load changes have never stood out with either CJ or ARC tube phono preamps in my former systems. The current system shows them off.

[tonye]

...

I don’t need a second LP12, so this one will either get sold or it will sit on my shelf as a spare until the kids sort it out at the end.

The Radikal does improve with settling in. Very definitely. The noise floor is subterranean, which allows the rest of the system to really play very well even at lower overall volumes. Something good when you try to drive low efficiency speakers ( Maggies ) with a low powered amp ( DIY SissySIT, an upgraded version of the FW SIT-3 ). (*)

BTW- The guy who does my LP12 here in SoCal is Dan Rosca. He is extremely talented. There is an old guy up in the Valley too, but I've never used him. Dan does an outstanding job, is honest, reliable and straightforward. He does the work in his shop but then delivers the table and makes sure it is well set up.. which usually means a nice listening session with a cup of coffee and a great conversation as well.

Have you thought of using your backup LP12 for an optical cartridge? I'm thinking about doing such. I don't want to mess with my LP12/Grado/DIY Pearl 2 combination because it sounds truly outstanding... a second LP12 with Lingo/Trampolin/Ekos/Radikal would be interesting with a DS Audio cartridge. I've been looking at the used market for such a table.. and I just found one in the City next over. Hmm...

As it turns out, there is a DIY energizer design, straight out of a DS Audio design note. Not hard to do and it saves you the money they ask for theirs - plus you can do better. Hopefully an output of 2V instead of just 500mV.

The cool thing about this setup is that the 2nd table can be treated as just an high level source in the preamp. So, it won't impact the "main" table.

(*) IMHO, there is too much gain in the typical residential audio system. Gain introduces noise because it makes components operate at lower than optimal gain range. The best "gain" is really "maximum" gain set to some preset value. The next is to use an autoformer to handle the voltage gain, something like a TVC preamp followed by a current stage. Just two steps. The next is to use a unity gain front end driving the TVC to current stage.

But you seldom see this configuration. It's too strange and too "incompatible" with the off the shelf market.

[AnotherJohnson]

Ha Ha! So basically, Are we there yet?... not quite yet!

Cheers mate.
RJ

At last …

More hours on the Lyra Etna Lambda.

It’s leaving the Roon/Rossini, Levinson 5101, Marantz SA-KI Ruby, and Mac MCT500/MDA200 in the dust.

Original vinyl from 40 to 60 years ago is presenting more detail and better recording room artifacts than the best modern ultra high resolution files.

This was true of my earlier Etna before the recent upgrades to my system and to streaming. Post upgrades, vinyl was still great, but the others had caught up to some extent. The Etna Lambda is another leap forward for the vinyl.

The down side? First, you gotta get up after every side. Second, you’ve got to have the hard media on site.

All of these sources blow me away. But this cartridge is like finding the proverbial Pearl of Great Price. It is everything that Alan Taffel claimed in his review. I’m as stunned as he was.

[AnotherJohnson]

I think this is good evidence that which source is best is a game of leapfrog.

When asked, everyone gives their own valid answer.

They’re right for their circumstance.

[Big Dog RJ]

Ah! Finally we have arrived.

That's fantastic news on the TT rig, and I'm not surprised that it surpasses the digital rig at this level. Overall, digital has come a long way from those awful digital flaws I've experienced since the 89/90's but it still has more to improve. Even when I first heard the all out assault on the 4-stack Eso line up (transport-clock & dual DACs) as awe-inspiring as it was... don't get me wrong, it was fabulous. However, each time I have the opportunity of listening to a well set up TT rig, it's just a different dimension. There are tones and textures that arrive from around you, not just in front and this is the enveloping affect I refer to. It's also more apparent on tube gear, compared to SS.

There's just something so damn fine about it, and when you've got a taste for it, there's no doubt it has more soul.
The best part of a fine TT rig is that it doesn't have to cost a fortune, unlike digital. Carefully consider the gain structure (phono-preamp, cartridge plus linestage) and you're laughing. The rest falls into place nicely and each time you improve on a minor aspect of the TT, performance is further enhanced. It's a marvellous thing!

Definitely do enjoy those fine tunes on that fine ARC tube gear.
Cheers, RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

The best part of a fine TT rig is that it doesn't have to cost a fortune, unlike digital. Carefully consider the gain structure (phono-preamp, cartridge plus linestage) and you're laughing. The rest falls into place nicely and each time you improve on a minor aspect of the TT, performance is further enhanced. It's a marvellous thing!

We all have reasons for what we think. All valid.

There is a lot of work to getting good phono.

Expense at the low end -

RCM. $500 for used
Phono preamp. $3k for used
TT/Arm/PS. $5k for low end LP12, upgradable forever
Cartridge. $2k for Lyra Delos
Interconnects. $500

There is a HUGE audible difference between this and the $50k kit here.

Streaming expense for decent might be half as much.

There is an audible difference between that and the $35k kit here.

Now is the time for head shaking.

[AnotherJohnson]

I’ve been told someone mentioned DS Audio above.

Here is a link to my audition.

https://www.conradjohnsonowners.com/vie ... cal#p23258

[AnotherJohnson]

I think this is good evidence that which source is best is a game of leapfrog.

When asked, everyone gives their own valid answer.

They’re right for their circumstance.

I just streamed Kenny Burrell’s album “Introducing Kenny Burrell” using Qobuz, Roon, and Rossini.

I’m now playing the vinyl using the Etna Lambda, high spec LP12, and REF Phono 3.

Gosh, it’s not even close. Anyone who walked in on this comparison would wonder how vinyl ever fell out of favor.

It was much closer when I had the original Etna installed.

The Rossini is “gushworthy” as a member of the higher level of streaming. But I’m with Michael Fremmer today … vinyl can be king.