“New” Linn LP12 Klimax

[AnotherJohnson]

Stereophile showed up in the mailbox this week.

Imagine my surprise to see a “New” LP12 on the cover.

It was dutifully reviewed inside. I figured my LP12s were further behind the times if there’s a new one out now.

But when I read the review, the version they reviewed is probably 4 or 5 years old, except for the Karousel bearing which was introduced about two years ago.

So I breathed a sigh of relief. I don’t have to scramble to see just how special a new LP12 Klimax might be.

The Klimax is a great table, and at one point my high spec LP12 was Klimax … except that I had the Uphorik outboard phono preamp and the outboard Radikal for their greater flexibility. I got rid of the Uphorik because I liked the CJ TEA1 better. I’ve not upgraded to the Karousel bearing either. I’m quite pleased with the Cirkus bearing.

Otherwise, I’m quite happy with the outboard Radikal, the Ekos SE, Keel subchassis, etc. I’ve got mine set up with a Woodsong custom plinth fabricated from some Woburn Abbey English Brown Oak, and it is truly unique. Beautiful look. Beautiful sound.

It really is a great TT. Perfect match for the Lyra Etna too.

My other LP12 is a “poor man’s” version built on a Greeves of Sheffield plinth. Instead of the Keel, it sports the Kore. Instead of the Ekos SE, it sports a late model Ittok. Instead of the Etna, it sports the Lyra Kleos. It sounds great too, except in direct comparison to its high spec brother.

On the bright side, even if it’s not “new,” it’s nice to see the LP12 getting some review love from Stereophile. I’m not sure how this happened, but I know from direct comparisons with far heavier and far more esoteric competition, that the LP12 fully dressed is competitive with the best that’s available. Highly recommended.

[AnotherJohnson]

In the Stereophile review they comment that there are lots of dealers, so plenty of good support for the LP12.

That is so far off the mark that it undermines the credibility of the whole magazine.

There are relatively few Linn dealers in the US. And of the Linn dealers, even fewer of them have a properly skilled LP12 setup specialist.

I have the specialty tools and setup jig to do my own setup and maintenance because the nearest authorized specialist with decent skills is 250 miles away. The best US based specialist (Thomas O’Keefe) is 500 miles away. LP12s are very tedious to pack for shipping, and after they return you’ve got to go through setup again in situ. So it makes no sense to ship them off for setup or maintenance. Before Covid, Peter Swain of Cymbiosis in Leicestershire was in high demand worldwide and traveled extensively to deliver and set up LP12s.

The reviewer also has the annoying habit of continually comparing the Klimax to his “bespoke” Dr Feikert custom rig, about whose sound signature no one else but his guests can know.

On the bright side for Linn, he seems to think that the “off the shelf” Klimax is a credible competitor for his customized beloved Feikert. Typical of Linn, they did not respond to the review. In the old days Linn actually had match books (remember them?) that were labeled “Review Response Kit.” The emery striking board was recommended for stylus cleaning.

The LP12 has a small footprint and modest weight. If properly set up (and that’s a big if), it is capable of incredible music extraction. If you’re not up to the setup, you’re much better off with an unsprung table. I no longer recommend VPI due to what I perceive to be failure of their quality control… even Upscale (a huge VPI dealer) recommends that you let them open the box and sort out what you’ve bought before shipping it to you. Rega and Clearaudio are both good bets after Linn.

[admin]

I read the article in Stereophile as well. In all honesty, I would take anything in Stereophile with a grain of salt. I read it for the pictures and general info on gear but their stated opinions are not consistently reliable. They pretty much lost all credibility with me last year when they attacked Goldensound's MQA analysis youtube videos.

We have to remember that Stereophile is pretty much an advertisement platform. Like all advertisements, they will "exaggerate" and defend positions that benefit those who are paying the bills.

On the positive side, they have pretty pictures.

[AnotherJohnson]

My guess is that MF didn’t want to touch an LP12 review with a 3 meter pole. Whatever he said would PO both the Linnies and the haters.

FWIW, I have a foot in both camps. I got so angry at Linn the company several years ago that I went on a quest to find a good replacement. My anger was kindled by the failure of a new Linn phono cartridge. It failed one day by collapse of the cantilever mid side. Several others experienced the same phenomenon with that model Linn cartridge (the Krystal).

Linn blamed it on the customers’ use of liquid stylus cleaners, which I had not done. They made a blanket decision to hang the buyers out to dry. They didn’t even offer to take the failed cartridges in trade for a higher model. Some stockists were embarrassed. Some lined up with corporate in spite of the fact that there had been no prior bulletin warning against liquid stylus cleaners.

In any event two things came of this for me. First, I wouldn’t use a Linn phono cartridge under any circumstance but if it were given to me for free. Second, the trials to find an LP12 replacement affirmed for me that the LP12 is truly exceptional. In spite of my unhappiness with Linn the company, I love my LP12s.

After several candidates were trialed over the course of a year, I sucked it up and brought my LP12s back from their shelf, but without Linn cartridges.

[admin]

Wow, that's a pretty hard burn with the stylus issue. I don't blame companies if their products have issues. There is only so much testing one can do before release and sometimes things slip through. But I do expect them to take responsibility if the fault is on them.

I can see the difficulty in loving a product that does not have the best customer service. I would say, enjoy the LP12. In the future if you do decide to move on. Speak with your wallet and go with another manufacturer.

[AnotherJohnson]

Voted/spoke (in your terms) with my ears. After about a year of sifting through other highly regarded options, I returned to my LP12s. It would be pigheaded to cut off one’s nose to spite one’s face.

It was not cheap to try other things. High end turntables are pricey. Glad I saved the Linns so I didn’t have to rebuy them. Glad I bought the other TTs low enough to get out of them with only minimal “tuition.”

Even so, I have other TTs here for different purposes. Like the rim drive Dual for 78s. Or the direct drive Technics … I wonder why I still have that one. . And maybe some others …

[AnotherJohnson]

This past week I had the legendary Linn Fettling Maestro Thomas O’Keefe install a Karousel bearing and do a full tuning of my LP12.

I knew Thomas by reputation and through forums, but I’d never met him.

He went through everything, worked his magic, and gave me a detailed report on his recommendations for possible upgrades. The good news is that the only real action item would be to replace my Radikal power supply and drive system with the Radikal 2 at some point. Maybe I will eventually get to that, but it’s not an urgent thing.

Today I’ve got the deck back in my system and have played some records to evaluate the work.

I can unequivocally state that Tom coaxed even more music out of the deck. The improvement isn’t “stunning” because it was already excellent. But there is no doubt that more details are being extracted from the grooves. More of the recording studio is clear. Transients and timing are even more realistic.

I’ve never let anyone else touch this deck. I built it myself. I am a competent set up man. But Tom definitely took it to another level.

It’s like I had it sounding like a Marantz Ruby SA-KI SACD player, and he has turned it into a Levinson 5101. I like both, but prefer the Levinson.

[admin]

Great news. Always a nice thing when you can get current gear sounding even a little bit better.

[AnotherJohnson]

I auditioned one of these this week too.

https://www.paragonsns.com/products/cle ... b=features

Impressive to say the least. About $245k more than the Klimax.

To be honest, it was impressive. It was sporting a high end Clearaudio moving coil.

But … on returning to my own system, my own did not disappoint.

At these levels much of the distinction between one and another comes down to taste.

The Stereophile review that precipitated this thread culminated in Stereophile’s consideration of the LP 12 as one of a handful of candidates for Turntable of the Year (or something similar) in their most recent issue. Two others tied and were co-winners. The LP12 was two votes behind.

This really wasn’t unexpected. There is so much animosity out there in the US against Linn as a company, I’m surprised they got any votes at all. And then there is the finicky setup issue that most are unprepared to cope with.

[AnotherJohnson]

I was wrong about Tom’s set up not being stunning because it was already excellent. I have been listening to more familiar records, and the more familiar I am with the disk, the clearer it is that Tom has worked some level of magic.

The idea that it has transformed from a Marantz Ruby to a Levinson 5101 still strikes me as a good comparison though. Micro detail, which I love, has definitely increased.

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes, very true mate! Like I've said many times, there are some very lofty TT rigs out there that are of course improvements without a doubt! However, it's not just the TT rig, now you have to upgrade the cart, upgrade the phonostage, upgrade the phono cables, oh! What about the stand... and it's another rabbit hole...

Of course, if you can afford it then go for it! By all means there will be all levels of improvement and yet the vicious cycle of upgrades continues...

I believe the best thing on your LP12 was for magic Thomas to do his magic! Just sit back and enjoy those fine tunes!

Cheers, RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

Yes, very true mate! Like I've said many times, there are some very lofty TT rigs out there that are of course improvements without a doubt! However, it's not just the TT rig, now you have to upgrade the cart, upgrade the phonostage, upgrade the phono cables, oh! What about the stand... and it's another rabbit hole...

Of course, if you can afford it then go for it! By all means there will be all levels of improvement and yet the vicious cycle of upgrades continues...

I believe the best thing on your LP12 was for magic Thomas to do his magic! Just sit back and enjoy those fine tunes!

Cheers, RJ

No need to upgrade the cartridge, phono stage, cables, and stand here. I have no idea where I would go to better these. Vinyl has always been the focus of my system.

I could probably get talked into the Radikal 2 upgrade down the road.

Tom recommended the new Linn Ekstatik cartridge, but I would not use a Linn cartridge unless it was given to me. If I were to upgrade the cartridge, I’d go with a Clearaudio Jubilee MC or a Lyra Etna Lambda SL. But I’ll wait until my Lyra Etna needs to be replaced. It is superb, and not yet halfway through its useful life.

Tom said that the only cable he likes better than the one I’m using is the next model LOWER in the Linn lineup. I’m not going to go down a model when the top model is highly regarded as better by most. A matter of taste I suppose. You could jump ship and buy a Nordost, but then you introduce the problem of tuning the LP12’s suspension. The cable dressing is a major factor in the sound of the deck, and I’ve heard this in my own experience.., it’s not a myth.

Phono stage? ARC Ref Phono 3 is the best I’ve ever heard. I could be talked into upgrading to the 3SE I suppose, but I’m told that the differences are subtle. The REF Phono 3 is worthy. I am powering it via a Nordost Frey 2 plugged into the P20 regenerator. That’s plugged into a 20 amp socket with an AQ Hurricane.

[AnotherJohnson]

FWIW, I did listen to that $275k+ Clearaudio TT (w/Jubilee MC) noted above with the ARC REF Phono 3SE, REF 6SE, REF 160S, Transparent wires and cords, and Alexia Vs.

My system is Linn LP12 (w/Lyra Etna), REF Phono 3, REF 6, REF 75 SE, AudioQuest and Nordost wires and cords, and Sabrinas.

So in terms of “panache”, the Clearaudio system was at least a couple of steps up, and about $300k or so more costly.

But in terms of shear enjoyment of the music my own set up was not disappointing when I returned to it.

I will say this though … that demo system is the first demo system that I’ve heard at a dealership in the last decade that could rival or improve upon my home vinyl setup. It was first rate and serious competition for the dCS Vivaldi stack being used as the other “front end.”

[admin]

I would have loved to listen to that system as well. If there is no practical budget limit, I can see the allure of buying something like that. But as AJ mentioned, it was "comparable" to his system which is a fraction of the cost.

[AnotherJohnson]

Two other notable electronics I got to experience were the D’Agostino Relentless series (which I did not like nearly as well as the ARC REF series), and the Burmester 905s which were better than the D’Agostino to my ears. But I still preferred the ARC.

I met a fellow who was big on matching ARC preamps to Burmester amps. He didn’t think you could get the bass any better than would come from such a system. My opinion is that “it depends.”

Interestingly, at least to me, is that the huge McIntosh inventory was recognized by all as modestly priced and entry level to the high end. In Nash Vegas, McIntosh is treated as “the ultimate pinnacle of the high end. “

Go figure.

[AnotherJohnson]

Thinking back on the $275k Clearaudio TT, I think that it probably did better my “pre Thomas O’Keefe tune up” LP12. Tom’s work is revealing itself to be better and better with more listening. Of course part of this could be due to the running in of the newly installed Karousel bearing.

[Big Dog RJ]

Yep! That's exactly my point. The lofty systems aren't worth their salt unless they can perform or shall I say out-perform a particular reference that is at its threshold.

I think I've mentioned it before, the last lofty system we were privately invited to audition, was somewhere in the region of 750grand. The speakers alone were around 320grand, with carbon fibre this and diamond that ... all sorts of bling! Listened for about 20mins and we headed straight to the drinks table! That's all she wrote.

It was boomy, obscured, hardly any transparency or detail and just lacked any finesse. However, it did have thunderous dynamics, just a huge wall of sound driven by 400w monoblocks that were 220grand. When it came to Q&A time, my mate & I weren't so popular during that day. Afterall we both own CLX's driven by some decent gear, nothing close to 100grand though..., and both our systems are miles ahead!

Just goes to show when something is not properly set up or finely adjusted, things just sound loud. No "music" in it at all. Just a big thump!

However, I've heard plenty of fantastic systems that are really well set up and have that awe-inspiring experience. Those are the ones I can certainly learn from.

Cheers mate, glad to hear that you enjoyed your own system just as much, especially when it comes to "enjoying the music." Quite often in this crazy highend category, far too many are chasing the gear... not really focusing on the music. That's all that matters.
RJ

[admin]

I will say this though … that demo system is the first demo system that I’ve heard at a dealership in the last decade that could rival or improve upon my home vinyl setup. It was first rate and serious competition for the dCS Vivaldi stack being used as the other “front end.”

The latest issue of stereophile mentions dCS rather prominently in multiple "product of the year award" categories. Of course, CJ is never mentioned in Stereophile which I find odd, other than the fact that CJ does not advertise in that magazine. I will also mention there is a pretty high correlation of reviewed/recommended hardware and full page ads by the same manufacturer. Certainly not saying that the recommendations are tainted, but this is a rather difficult to ignore fact.

[AnotherJohnson]

It is natural to advertise with folks who like your stuff.

I don’t know which is the chicken and which is the egg.

A lot of companies get their start because of good reviews and then advertise with the folks who made them.

VPI is one. Harry Pearson boosted VPI at the start. But all is not roses. Harry Weisfeld was unhappy with the mags over the 40th Anniversary arm reviews.

[AnotherJohnson]

I had some correspondence this week with my UK based Linn dealer. He sells more LP12s than anyone else in the world. He has 18 of them set up in different states of upgrade, each ready for audition.

In any event, he said that the Karousel bearing upgrade is a major advance and that it won’t reach its peak until it’s run in for about 200 hours. He said to just let the platter run for another week.

So that might explain why it keeps sounding better and better. Actually my Ref Phono 3 isn’t broken in yet either, so both of those issues are in play … and now the Ref 6 SE break in is also a factor.