TV monitor analog input/outputs

[AnotherJohnson]

At one time any decent video monitor included at least five analog rca jacks … analog L & R audio out, and analog L&R + composite video in.

Now, as I survey the field at my local big box stores, the only brand I see that still has these five rca jacks is Vizio.

I asked about it at my friendly neighborhood high end AV store, and was told that “no one includes rca anymore.” It was recommended to either add something that would convert the digital optical out signal to analog, or to buy a stereo mini-plug to L + R RCA adapter and use the TV’s
headphone out jack.

I suppose another option would be to abandon the TV’s internal receiver and buy a better one that would feed the video to the TV monitor while sending the audio to your audio preamp.

I know there are some here who are into Home Theater, including admin. What’s your best advice for playing TV audio through your CJ music system?

[admin]

HI AJ,
I presume you are referring to getting analog stereo output from the TV coming from cable or digital broacast? There are multiple ways to extract that audio and send it to your stereo system. However, get ready to be disappointed. Audio quality is not high on the list of most broadcast shows and as for high quality content such as movies, you will be dealing with the need to remix a 5.1 sound stream into 2 channels. So the two biggest factors on sound quality are going to be the DAC that is doing the digital to audio conversion and then the potential downmix from 5.1 to 2.0.

TV's (that do have analog outs) will have the cheapest DAC and analog circuits that are available. And very little care or thought is put into their design and implementation. So if possible, I would recommend not using the TV analog outs even if they have them. Best bet would be to run the original TV signal through a good receiver and use the receiver's output for the audio and video should just be passthrough. This should also take care of the downmix for multi-channel audio.

What I would NOT do is to simply extract the front right and front left channels of a multichannel audio stream and pass it directly to the stereo system. This may seem attractive as it doesn't remix, but with TV, the center channel is 80% of the meaningful sound content. So that needs to be maintained. Also, you will lose the complete low end if you don't incorporate the ".1" channel.

Hope that helps somewhat.

[AnotherJohnson]

Thanks. It helps a lot.

It sounds like the nature of the audio signal is dramatically different from the last time I set up a TV through PV5.

So … what receivers are known to be decent and match well with your CJ system?

[admin]

"Unfortunately", the better the receiver, typically better DAC and output circuitry. The problem is that you are buying a bunch of "features" that you are not using (like all the video processing and amplification circuitry with receivers). In your case, you probably are not actually looking for a "receiver" but a "processor." Which is basically a receiver without the speaker amp.

There are many options. I've heard some of emotiva's line which is pretty good.

https://emotiva.com/collections/processors

[AnotherJohnson]

Lots of “temporarily unavailable” stuff, though not all.
Thanks for the link.

[admin]

I've been finding that with lots of electronics in general. My wife was trying to find a new printer for her office and it seems like 2/3rd's of HP's printers are out of stock,... and this is directly from HP's website. I think global supply chain issues are hitting all tech companies.

[AnotherJohnson]

I’ve come up with a Sonus Faber center speaker to use with the Liuto monitors.

I’ve been looking at processors on the used market.

I suspect that the technology is changing rapidly. How old would you consider for a used processor? 2 years? 5 years? More?

[admin]

I think you can go significantly older than 5 years. Ever since 5.1 came onto the scene in the 90's, multichannel sound processors really advanced rapidly. So anything from the late 90's onward can be very good. I actually use a Sony SDP-E800 for decoding 5.1 channel AC3 audio from my laserdisc player. It has modes for 3.0 sound simulation. That unit is 25 years old.

Now keep in mind you are not going to get the same "pure audio" that we as audiophiles enjoy from our stereo sources and setups. It will be processed. But for content designed with video in mind, this is not a bad thing. I really view 2 channel audio and home theater as two related but very different mediums. Hence, my expectations and desires are vary. One is not "better or worse" than the other. Merely different.

[roberto]

Hola Chicos,
I'm going to chime a little bit. First, I'm going to explain how I have my set up. The volume control is like a faucet. With the faucet you are allow to control the amount of water you want. Likewise a volume control, you open or close the knob for the amount of signal you want.

On these days, the use of the HDMI cable (High Definition Media Interfase) is the way to go. In all HDMI cables are used usually 19 pins to pass the digital information from one device to another. Yup, 19 different tiny pins on each HDMI connector. This will tell you the complexity of the digital signal.

From the Blu Ray DVD player goes the video and audio signal to my digital audio and video processor (Anthem AV-60). Here the audio digital info is converted to an analogue signal, so from here LF y RF output I go to my Conrad Johnson preamp ET-7 input Aux 1. Then I have a three channel power amp, that I use for center channel speaker and L & R rear speaker. And the .1 to the sub output of the AV-60 to the input Low Frequency Effect (LFE) of BF-210 Martin Logan Subwoofer.

The video signal goes from the output HDMI of the AV-60 to the HDMI 1 input of the TV. On this AV-60, I have connected the TV-box channel selector, the Apple TV and the OPPO DVD player, all via HDMI. All these inputs are audio and video input signals.

The computer signal is connected this way: The HDMI from my Mac Pro to the input of the TV HDMI 2. ( I could go to the audio and video processor but, I chose this way to separate 5.1 from stereo.) and the audio from the Mac Pro via USB output to my Holo May DAC USB Input. The Holo May KTE DAC also receive the signal direct from my two Bel Canto transports AUX1 and AUX2. The audio analogue output of the Holo is connected via RCAs to the Conrad Johnson ET-7 input CD. The TT is connected to a Vincent phono low MC cartridge input and its output to the Conrad Johnson ET-7 Aux 2 input.

When I use stereo only (90% my use is related for music) The ET-7 and the power amps CJ 120SE are on, and the TV in input HDMI 2. Youtube signal now is High Definition audio. 192KHz PCM audio signal is processed with the HOLO DAC. Then I have computer music from Audirvana Plus and HQPlayer. I also have Qobuz streaming High Res and also all my CD collection. The ET-7 has two outputs, I use one output for the power amp 120SE and the other to the input of the Ml L nd R input in the subwoofer. ML has a special digital filter for match the CLXs. When I use 5.1, the LFE is not acting for the digital filter for my CLXs, so the booms and the low frequency effects coming from the videos are able.

When I want to play Blu Ray DVDs, Apple video (Sony-HBO-Netfix) etc, the input at Conrad Johnson is Aux 1 and the volume increased to 70. Now I never touch this volume knob again, it will pass the signal from the the AV-60 and enough volume without any noise, 70 volume display is very high on the ET-7 but I can't hear any noise. Passing through EPL1 or EPL2 inputs on the ET-7, the volume is set to the maximum and I can hear some hiss or noise coming there. I don't use these options on the ET-7. I rather use Aux 1 and volume at 70. No noise at all here.

In other words, I use my system as two separated systems. One for stereo and adjusted for the precision needed to have an incredible stage, and the 5.1 for the fun of the low frequency effects, dialogue and why not, also DVD Blu Ray concerts, etc.

The audio adjustments on the AV-60 are very important. You can increase or decrease the volume signal on each channel and the sub. So, first I did adjust the stereo system fro my liking and then the 5.1. It takes a little time for the adjustments, but really worth it.

Happy listening!

[admin]

Wow. That is really complex. I'm trying to visualize all the connections in my mind as you describe it but I think I lost some of it.

In my room, I have a dual setup. One for 2 channel audio and then a completely separate multichannel audio video setup. There is complete electric isolation in this chain including power line (well, at least up to the breaker box in the basement). Although I can output audio via toslink from the video setup to the 2 channel audio setup. I choose toslink specifically so there would be no electrical contact between the two systems, including ground.

The intermingling and complexity of your setup lends itself to more issues, but if it works, then it works! The dual volume controls when you play Blu-ray, DVD, and Apple video does give me a little pause as typically I don't like passing any audio signal through two variable attenuations. But again, you ears are your best judge so if it sounds good, then that's the only thing that matters.

Again, an interesting and rather complex system you've got there.

[AnotherJohnson]

Both helpful. I’ve been thinking along the lines of Roberto, but I see advantages to both.

The easiest thing might be to buy a Denon, Yamaha, Marantz flavored 5.1 or more receiver and just start from scratch … I really don’t want to mix the video with my serious two channel. I have been surprised to see how far the video has separated itself from the two channel audio.

[admin]

If you can separate the two, I think it is far easier. Looks like roberto has a good system, but it's complex and unique most likely took a lot of experimentation and work to get it working well.

I find that audio with movies is mixed very differently than recorded music. This needs to be taken into consideration as well. I also think the "hobbies' of home theater and audiophiles are different. The manufacturers have very different goals in terms of equipment design and setup. I really enjoy both and there is overlap, but I do consider them "separate" hobbies.

[AnotherJohnson]

As an innocent bystander, my sense is that you are right.

In the late 20th century, I enjoyed using the simple RCA jacks on big TVs to feed the audio into the aux or tuner inputs on various PV preamps. None of this surround sound, center channel, subwoofer stuff.

But basic TV audio seems to genuinely stink now. Even with the ubiquitous “sound bar, satellite and sub” packages that are widely available. The audio has been a major video disappointment as we’ve had big TVs from Samsung, Vizio, Sony, and others.

So … I’ve got a relatively small extra room (11.5’x14’).

I’m thinking just buy a receiver, use the Sonus Faber monitors for center and rear. Use an extra pair of floorstanders for LF and RF.

I dunno … I think I’ll go listen to some 1957 Barney Kessell.

[admin]

I can't believe that I am going to say this, but for somebody that "doesn't want to take the deep dive" into home theater, doesn't want to buy a half dozen surround sound speakers, is planning to feed generally poor quality audio from youtube or cable television,... a good quality soundbar can be a reasonable and inexpensive option. Not all sound bars are bad and they generally do a good job with mixing multichannel audio into one speaker. Martin Logan makes some and they sound pretty good. No, you don't get the same experience as real speakers blasting away behind you, but it really gets you to an entry point and you don't need 7 speakers, fancy receivers, crossovers, processors, etc...

[AnotherJohnson]

Better than the TV resident speakers, yes.

And off they go to the landfill when they fail.

[AnotherJohnson]

When I was a student, and later as a faculty member teaching mechanical design, (this was literally 50 years ago), we considered what was called “the design-production-consumption-retirement cycle.”

Nothing was supposed to go to landfill. Now most consumer goods are not readily repairable, and it is difficult to reclaim their raw materials through recycling.

We took a wrong turn along the way.

[roberto]

Youtube is now the sound signal is at 192KHz all the time.

[roberto]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzD22Alrf2w

This is a good latin music recording. Maite is from Holland, and she studied the trumpet. Her dad had a lot of latin music LPs and CDs. So she felt in love the latin music. Now she lives in Colombia. Here is a little sample of dynamics and new improved sound from YouTube.

[roberto]

here is another good dynamic recording:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mvh9aA_8cbA

[AnotherJohnson]

Yes, there are some good recordings.

But the run of the mill cable or satellite shows, are often “not very good,” and that’s what we use tv for.

Again, there are exceptions that make the rule.

I’m sure it depends on the original quality, and then on the transmission quality, and then on the playback system quality.

And in the case of the resident amp and speakers in most most TV’s, they fall woefully short of anything we could be convinced was high fidelity.