TV monitor analog input/outputs

[AnotherJohnson]

FWIW, the HT experiment is actually not far from the current router location. Maybe I just need to try everything as it is and see how it works. The streaming of audio at the HiFi end of the house seems fine, except for the inherent variable quality of internet radio.

[admin]

How interesting. Internet radio is almost always extremely low bitrate lossy. Again, if you do a simple speed check via phone/laptop at the location it will tell you the data rate, at least as a rough estimate. You can also look at your router settings. Often they will report packet loss which could explain why it could be degrading quality here and there.

[AnotherJohnson]

And people wonder why some prefer hard media.
Subscription costs, the obvious privacy issues, and the obvious lack of control of consistency … the biggest benefit to streaming that I can see is that you can avoid getting out of your chair, and if you fall asleep, the music continues ad nauseam.

Last night, browsing through my shelves, I found another late 50’s Miles Davis SACD that I’d forgotten. Good enough for me.

[AnotherJohnson]

I went over to the XFINITY bricks and mortar store today. They gave me a new router with a wider range. It’s been a Royal pita getting it sorted out today.

Extended chatting, and several attempts on their end to bring things to life were required. It took the best part of the afternoon on into the evening.

In the end, the last device to finally come back to life was the Denon 350.

Say what you will, but getting several AV components to play nicely together is rarely transparent unless they’re all Apple based.

[AnotherJohnson]

Moved the modem/router to the room that joins the old and new structures. With the new router’s larger coverage, it was enough to do away with the WiFi extenders. I can get a good strong signal, even through brick wall, 2x6 rock wool caulked firewall, two sound insulated doors, etc. good at either end of the house.

Tonight I struggled getting the ND8006 back on the LAN, but I eventually succeeded.

The Quick Start Guide and HEOS app were useless for setup. So was the official manual. Finally Captain Obvious noticed the “setup” button on the ND8006 remote control. Unplugging the ND8006, plugging it back in, and punching “setup” led to screens and choices that I was able to wade through.

In the end, the HEOS app recognizes the device even though it would NOT allow me to just add it.

I’m sure all this stuff is transparent to some folks.

Next project is to set up the AVR on the far side of the house and get back to trying to find out if 11.5’x14’ is large enough for a 65” TV based HT.

[paulCJ]

I have a cheap, and I do mean cheap, DAC that takes the digital out from the tv and converts it to analog with rca connectors. The quality (both sound and visual) is so bad that even the labels for the left and right rca outputs are reversed.
When I do serious listening from a dvd or blu-ray, my Pioneer player has a decent DAC that outputs to rca connectors. So the video signal goes to the tv via hdmi and the rca goes to the stereo system. I have to make sure the tv volume control is set to zero.
Geting back to the cheap DAC, I tested the sound (of the cheap DAC) by connecting the digital output of the dvd/blu-ray player to the cheap dac and then with the rca outputs to the stereo. Well, the sound is thin and veiled even from a good source with what is normally great sounding music, and sounds even worse thru the lower quality tv as the sound source.

[admin]

The DACs in TV's are nothing more than an afterthought. You really need to do the decoding and processing outside of the TV is you want reasonable quality. For multi-channel audio you want the processor/receiver decoding. If you are listening with two channel sources, a good external DAC is an option.

[AnotherJohnson]

When I said TV based, it was as opposed to projector based. I did not mean that the TV would be he starting point for the audio chain.

I did not bother to try to use the TV as a starting point for the audio due to the reports of friends, both here and in the industry. That’s why I went with the Denon 5.2 capable AVR.

I have been working on other projects and haven’t moved the 5 speakers to the Boro house yet. The sub is there, and two of the stands are there. But the HT is not yet ready for prime time.

One good thing is that the 65” TVs I have do have ARC and eARC hdmi ports.

[AnotherJohnson]

The Liuto monitors are the speakers I’m using in the LP275M amped test system.

I really liked how these handled voice when I first bought them second hand earlier this year.

They image really nicely, and spectral balanced is very believable, if not super wide ranging.

The Sabrinas will probably be here at the end of next week.

Some good problems of choosing lie ahead. The Liutos will most likely go back to the HT room.

But for now, driven by the LS28SE + LP275Ms, they are very enjoyable on the female vocal albums I’m playing.

[AnotherJohnson]

I’ve had the Denon AVR-S660H since March, and it’s been unpacked since April. But I did not get around to setting it up until tonight.

I tried to set it up with just L and R. It sounded horrible. Then I remembered that most dialogue is on the center channel. So I grabbed the Sonus Faber center speaker and the pair of PSB Alpha AVs for surround.

Went through set up with the included microphone and am very pleased with the result.

[admin]

What's your source (2 channel music or video)? For any multichannel video content the center channel is going to be the most important speaker in the setup.

Glad it's up and running. The Denon is also HEOS enabled so you can use it as a streamer which is a nice bonus, if you ever wanted it to do double duty.

[AnotherJohnson]

What's your source (2 channel music or video)? For any multichannel video content the center channel is going to be the most important speaker in the setup.

Glad it's up and running. The Denon is also HEOS enabled so you can use it as a streamer which is a nice bonus, if you ever wanted it to do double duty.

It even has phono inputs, although I don’t know if it can equalize or boost. Not important though. Also has CD and a pair of Aux inputs. It’s actually quite a lot of flexibility for very little money (I think it was about $400 including the tax).

It was interesting to listen to it do its room EQ with the included microphone and cardboard stand. I told it to skip the sub. So I’m running it in 5.0 rather than 5.1.

I hooked up the blue ray and the cable, and downloaded/activated HEOS.

The room is small. I’m think it’s 11.5’ x 14’. I have the surround speakers in the corners. I’m surprised it works at all. But it’s definitely an upgrade over the TV’s sound (Sony Bravia). The Bravia is better than LG, Samsung, and/or Vizio sound we’ve had, with or without sound bars and subs.

I am using this room for stationary bike riding where a 1 hour program can be stripped of commercials in order to provide 40 minutes of actual content.

This is not competition to become a second system. It’s just curiosity and a lot of leftover speakers etc.

[admin]

I think to have entertainment while you are getting your exercise done, it's perfect.

Any reason you decided to not have the sub on? Keep in mind that with multichannel audio (like video streaming services, movies, or even TV these days), there is a dedicated sub channel, so it's not like when we may perhaps use a sub in our two channel setups and "creating" an artificial 3rd sound channel. The audio stream most likely is 6 channels, typically written as 5.1, with the extra being the subwoofer channel so in this case you would be losing the intended low end (as it may not be mixed into the other 5 channels). Just something to be aware of.

[AnotherJohnson]

I think to have entertainment while you are getting your exercise done, it's perfect.

Any reason you decided to not have the sub on? Keep in mind that with multichannel audio (like video streaming services, movies, or even TV these days), there is a dedicated sub channel, so it's not like when we may perhaps use a sub in our two channel setups and "creating" an artificial 3rd sound channel. The audio stream most likely is 6 channels, typically written as 5.1, with the extra being the subwoofer channel so in this case you would be losing the intended low end (as it may not be mixed into the other 5 channels). Just something to be aware of.

Yes, I’m familiar with the separate sub track.
The BF210 had been destined for this role. But it was just too large for me to visually accept it in this small space. Also, I hated the weight. My son(s) could have gotten it placed. But then I would have had to get help to remove it too. Just too much sugar for a nickel.

I made money on the BF210 sale, so no regrets.

If I were trying to have an ultimate HT experience, I’d start with the room, custom choose the gear, etc. this started as an attempt to get improved TV sound. With the 5 channel AVR, and decent speakers, that box is checked.

[admin]

Ok, that makes sense. It's also possible that if you tell the receiver there is no sub attached, it may mix the sub channel into the other speakers. There is a lot of background processing of the audio when multichannel is involved, so you really may not be missing too much from the lack of sub in the first place.

You can also do some things in the settings to make the speakers get more low end signal. Often there is a "speaker type selection", like small/large. If you select large, it treats it as a full range speaker and more amplitude to the lower frequencies. There is also a crossover selection option. If you push that down, the main speakers will get more of the low end load.

One fun thing about hometheater receivers is that there are a lot of ways to manipulate the audio signal that we never experience on our high end two channel setups.

[AnotherJohnson]

One fun thing about hometheater receivers is that there are a lot of ways to manipulate the audio signal that we never experience on our high end two channel setups.

I agree that it is “fun.” It is interesting to sit in the middle of the experience. It gives new meaning to the concept of depth.

For me, the biggest benefit is clarity compared to the unaugmented TV two channel with TV amp and built in speakers. It is considerably better than the Samsung 5.1 sounbar satellites and sub in a box we used on the big TV at the other house.

The simulated theater sound will be a special treat for the 4 year old.

The Blu-Ray player is an old Sanyo Walmart special. I bought two a few years back when they were closing them out.

[AnotherJohnson]

Related to the “play” concept -

Back in the day, before the audio nazi’s marched us away from tone controls, octave and third octave equalizers, etc, good audio preamps and receivers had a “loudness” button.

Loudness was a tone shaper based on Fletcher’s and Munson’s research into how average humans hear the frequency spectrum. Our sensitivity is not only frequency dependent, but also level dependent.

As the level drops, our sensitivity in the bass and treble regions drops off more quickly than our sensitivity to the midrange. We are all different, but on average,a correction curve can be proposed. “Loudness” is the correction curve to make low level spectra sound more like normal level spectra.

The Denon AVR has software to implement “loudness” correction for low level listening, although it doesn’t call it by that name. I noticed the related questions during the set up.

[admin]

I can't speak of the exact implementation of the "loudness" function on the denon, but with receivers, the loudness option is often a dynamic range compression algorithm that is not designed specifically for correcting our perception of sound, but rather designed for low level listening. This is implemented for when you want to watch a movie at low levels (say at night to not disturb others). The problem often arises that you can't hear the dialog, but the explosions are still very loud. With the loudness function, you compress the dynamic range making the low volume and high volume audio more similar in amplitude.

[AnotherJohnson]

Loudness is a contour that boosts bass and treble, effectively suppressing midrange.

Compression levels everything.

I don’t listen to earthquakes and explosions, they’re not being musical (1812 overture excepted).

But maybe you’re right. Actually compensating for the human spectral sensitivity would probably be beyond the skill set or perceived need of post boom product developers.

Suffice it to say that there is much about HT that you don’t control even after you’ve selected your choices. Much like room correction software.

It is a legitimate playground. But it is not transparent.

Maybe compression has replaced loudness. If it has, we’ve lost the discernment of the composer’s subtle differences between loud soft which loudness seeks to maintain. We’ve replaced the scalpel with the kitchen shears.

[AnotherJohnson]

Maybe loudness is a casualty of dynamic range.

If you have conversations and explosions together, which is not music, compression becomes necessary. I dunno …

It’s above my pay grade.