Stolen CJ Classic 120SE Serial #5761052

[whnay1]

Folks,

I hate to report this, but I sold a brand New CJ Classic 120SE power amplifier and it was a scammer who bought it. His funds initially cleared and then were bounced a week later.

This amplifier has been reported to the FBI and Fairfax County Va. Police.

It's Serial Number is 5761052 so if someone tries to sell this to you it is stolen equipment. Please notify immediately if someone tries to.

they use the excuse that their father is sick and then try to sell it for $5000 which is half what a new one sells for. I am a CJ Dealer so I know the pricing.

It's so sad there are so many scammers out there.

All the best,

Bill Nay

[admin]

I'm so sorry. That's terrible. Was this a "bounced check" scam? I know personal checks can take weeks to clear.

[whnay1]

This was done through QuickBooks Merchant Services. Scammers are targeting Quickbooks.

We talked about the amp for a few days and then he decided to buy it. He used an ACH transaction through QuickBooks Merchant Services. All I see is that funds have cleared into my bank account. His bank account is hidden for security reasons so I have NO way of knowing of it is real or not.

It cleared into my account in 2 days and I paid CJ for the amp and shipped it to the customer. A week later the funds bounced this after first clearing.

There is nothing I can do except report to the police and the CJ sites.

[admin]

Again, terrible. How do you defend yourself against such scams? Should there be a holding limit for ACH transfers?

I would keep an eye on the hifishark listing site (that we have linked in our classifieds section) as that aggregates all the major auction sites. Make a bookmark with the search paramaters and you can check it every few days with only a single click.

[whnay1]

Thank you for your help.

I don't identify on this site as a dealer because I am here to help with my vast knowledge of CJ over the years.

What a shame it is coming to this.

[admin]

Do you think something like paypal would have been safer? I know with paypal you can pay via your bank account (in addition to credit card) and I always presumed that the immediate transfers were valid.

[AnotherJohnson]

That is very sad. My condolences to Bill.

Small businesses are fragile enough without being terrorized by unscrupulous bums.

[admin]

This actually gets me thinking. Maybe I should write up some guide for buying and selling as there are transactions in our classified section here on CJO. I'll have to look around a research this a bit.

[AnotherJohnson]

Even cashier’s checks are suspect these days. Checks need to be held two weeks.

Postal money orders may still be safe, although the enforcement teeth are no longer as reliable. Otherwise PayPal friends and family.

I had to deal with old style deadbeats back in the 80’s when I was doing a small time high end business out of my house. The stakes are higher today. And there are scammers working both sides of the transaction.

[admin]

AJ,

I would not recommend Paypal "Friends and family" unless you actually know the seller. You don't have the protections that you do with "goods and services" method,... that is why there is also no fee with "friends and family".

https://www.paypal.com/us/smarthelp/art ... nts-faq638

[AnotherJohnson]

It cleared into my account in 2 days and I paid CJ for the amp and shipped it to the customer. A week later the funds bounced this after first clearing.

Shipping address known. Same as billing address?

Could the problem be worked through that end?

I have a lot of my incoming UPS parcels diverted to my local UPS store, but often vendors will not allow any changes from the credit card billing address.

[admin]

I've heard stories where these scammers will find an abandoned or vacant house and use that address. So the item gets delivered and because they have the tracking number they are able to pick it up on that one delivery day without anything tying them to a delivery address. Common thieves,... nothing more or less.

[AnotherJohnson]

AJ,

I would not recommend Paypal "Friends and family" unless you actually know the seller. You don't have the protections that you do with "goods and services" method,... that is why there is also no fee with "friends and family".

https://www.paypal.com/us/smarthelp/art ... nts-faq638

Yes. I know. It is safer for the seller, not the buyer. Bill is a seller.

Sellers are not super well protected by PayPal. Protections are usually in favor of the buyer.

[AnotherJohnson]

I've heard stories where these scammers will find an abandoned or vacant house and use that address. So the item gets delivered and because they have the tracking number they are able to pick it up on that one delivery day without anything tying them to a delivery address. Common thieves,... nothing more or less.

Don’t ship to anything other than the credit card billing address. A formal billing address isn’t readily set up at an abandoned or vacant house.

[admin]

AJ,
You are correct in that paypal does favor the buyer. However, in a situation like this the seller would have a good case with a police report and bank statements showing that the ACH transfer bounced. I also believe that "technically" it's against the service agreement to buy/sell goods and use the "friends and family" method. But I suppose you can argue that if you know and trust the person, it's a "friend." Which also negates the need for the buyer protection (and fee) of a "goods and services" transaction.

[AnotherJohnson]

You know, I’ve been trading audio gear literally for 40 years, and historically most transactions have been genuinely collegial. Most of the guys I’ve bought from or sold to have been sincere and competent. There is value in the feedback system. A scammer can’t generate a multi-year record of positive transactions.

A dealer has more trouble because he has to deal with anyone who initiates a purchase.

But only shipping to a confirmed PayPal address, or to a confirmed cc billing address would seem to help. Checks? Hold ‘em for two weeks.

[AnotherJohnson]

There’s no perfect system. Even face to face cash is dangerous these days. Insurance may be available to protect a dealer. Self insurance would be to add to the margin to cover losses due to theft. All major retailers consider this.

[admin]

It's a shame that it has to be that way. I'm more of a "my word is my bond," kind of guy but I guess makes me a dinosaur. I do try to be careful with people I have never done business with or know.

[AnotherJohnson]

In any event, I think it would be worthwhile to involve the police in the community where it was shipped.


Of course there is the hope that the check cleared based on deposits, but then a deposit failed. One bounced check can create a chain reaction. Maybe this buyer was a victim too.

So one can only hope that he’ll make good on the transaction.

Note that this is a really stupid time to steal a tube amp. Tubes are about to become scarce. Why would someone steal an esoteric amp when there’s such a limited market, and it’s about to get worse?

[AnotherJohnson]

Another option to protect both parties is escrow.com. Reverb and Audiogon both suggest this approach for transactions between strangers.