ART 108A amp

[admin]

Financing for a six figure stereo is pretty crazy in my opinion. We all put a lot of resources into this hobby, but at the end of the day these are just "toys." When it comes to buying toys, I like the old saying, "if you can't afford 5, then you can't afford 1."

[Big Dog RJ]

I just received my quote this arvo, whiles I was driving to my GOTO store for high quality reference recordings. The figure quoted is within what I had predicted for these monoblocks, which is something I can actually manage. However, this is only from VA to my CJ importer, so it doesn't take into account the in-between costs that can vary from anything to 20-30% more, and that's the issue I'm having. Paying for such vague extras without knowing the final cost doesn't sit with me well. This can vary from 10-15grand... So I need to know!

Anyway, the whole thing is on hold at the moment, as I was advised by both parties to wait it out... the recession is just about to hit full on. This means the average household will find it even harder to manage basic items, such as groceries, fuel and energy costs, plus heath and medications... so I guess we need to prepare ourselves and brace the elements! I'm not really sure when the storm is over... I think it's just begun!

Best, RJ

[Big Dog RJ]

Oh! I forgot to address Admin's question about parallel imports... if I'm to import these amplifiers myself directly from CJ HQ to Melbourne, that's referred to as a "parallel import" in Aus. And over here, when the customs officers get to know that a local based importer already exists for the brand, oh boy! Not only are you thrown in the crap house but also not given a bone after you've spent few months in the dog house...this ends up in heavy custom duties. Plus, the local importer will not honour warranty since you didn't purchase from them .. and CJ HQ can't help either. If anything is required in terns of service or parts, I would have to ship these huge fellas all the way to VA and back, no thanks Charlie!

I happen to know two chaps who did this with a GAT and ART150, didn't end well... don't want to go there....
And that's all she wrote!

I've known the CJ importers for nearly two decades now, and all my CJ gear and Nordost accessories have been sourced from them. I've developed such a strong friendship that they're like family mates to me, so I don't want to ruin that friendship over some monoblocks. Will always do the right thing and adhere to policies where I can help contribute to the local economy through local based importers/ suppliers, it's the only sensible way.

Woof! RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

The warranty issue is something I’d forgotten, but it is a big deal.

Like so many things in life, trying to do things in what appears to be the cheapest way often leads to many over expenditures later. Buy through the proper channels and cry once.

[admin]

RJ,
Completely agree with you. There seems to be a lot of risks of trying to import something like this on your own. And I didn't realize the warranty would be voided or the potential complications with custom duties. Also, the relationship that you have built up with your dealer is of considerable value as well.

On our side of the pond, it just seems so unusual to have these massive fees. I guess we should consider ourselves lucky not have to worry about custom duties, sales tax, etc.

[AnotherJohnson]

No sales tax is peculiar to NH.

Customs and duties do get applied at higher levels, and they keep up with it serially over the year. I don’t know the current rules, but when I was importing Linn products when they had no US representaion, I had customs fees and duties applied when the total got up into the 5 figure range. And the warranty issue was in play too. Fortunately
I never needed any warranty service.

[admin]

No sales tax is peculiar to NH.

Customs and duties do get applied at higher levels, and they keep up with it serially over the year. I don’t know the current rules, but when I was importing Linn products when they had no US representaion, I had customs fees and duties applied when the total got up into the 5 figure range. And the warranty issue was in play too. Fortunately
I never needed any warranty service.

Interesting, I'm learning things every day. Last big foreign purchase was my Holo Audio DAC at over $5k, but there were no duties/fees on that (other than standard shipping).

As for sales tax, do you have to pay the sales tax when ordering things online or just local sales?

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes, that's correct. If there's no local importer/ rep for the brand... then bringing it in is allowed but again they slam very high duties regardless.

Yes, buyers in Nth US and other parts of the world where gear is locally made and sold (Canada, UK, Germany...), getting access to such highend gear is far more reasonable and accessible. Unfortunately down unda, these items are now considered luxury items, so customs officials eagerly wait for such arrivals. $$$ signs roll down in their eyes!

Speaking of audiophile reference recordings, I picked these LP's up and gave them a spin. I couldn't listen to all 10 of them, only these ones to begin with and what wonderful recordings! As I was sifting through the collection, there was the store owners personal system playing in a corner of the shop: MV55 with a Cyrus preamp driving Watmough ( Aussie speakers), what a beautiful sound! He's also got the Premier 12's and ACT2 (which was my previous one!) driving a pair of Kharma reference speakers, another beautiful work of art!

Having experienced this I then realised what it's all about, the music! There was plenty of caramel, syrup and that golden glow...
Fast fwd that few decades to CJ's LP series amplifiers and there's far more neutrality, transparency and openness, along with greater quietness when upgraded to the full SE version that includes Teflons & Vishays, which I've done! There's only an ever slight hint of that golden glow... it's there but you have to really focus on it to hear it.

Take this to another level, where I listened to the ART150 recently and that very presentation goes a few notches up- greater control, smoother drive which is effortless, more open and dynamic and holds itself steady even at very loud levels. At a level further, the ART300's take over being the top of the line in Class AB. Extremely powerful.

My trusted Spore mate says that if I was really considering an overall upgrade to what I've done so far, it would be the ART300's, such that it's extreme power handling and ability to drive virtually any load with ease, are its core strengths. That's the benefit of using the KT150.

The ART108A's are very special kind of amps, such that they're Class A. He believes that they've capable of a fairly good power rating in Class A, whether or not they can deliver as high as 160w of Class A is yet to be determined. 160w of Class A is an awful lot of power and heat! It takes 8 KT88's per amp to do this and I suppose it's possible with monoblocks but I'm not too sure myself whether these can really pump out 160w of that much Class A. I'm thinking within 60 - 80w yes but 160w is really pushing the limits.

I guess this is where JF has gone to the extremes of adding more power supplies even in the input and driver/phase inverter stages. Plus all those Teflons and a full layout of Vishays definitely spikes up the cost. We were just discussing these points little while ago and so it got me thinking... if I should just consider the ART150 and call it a day. I don't know...

These new ART series amps have 10 times more capacitance than the first gen ART amps and around 20 times more capacitance than the LP series amps. According to him, this is where the main differences are, in power supplies, trannies, regulated power supplies and the sheer size of the trannies are much larger, so the capacitance has been widely enhanced. The ART108A's have all the glory of Class A high current and so do the ART150 and 300's. It's just a matter of preference and what type of speakers the owner is using.

Anyhoo, after listening session to these LP's just now, I'm wondering whether I should just call it a day and not bother at all because these were some really fine tunes! Absolute tops! Woof!
RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

As for sales tax, do you have to pay the sales tax when ordering things online or just local sales?

It depends on both the seller’s jurisdiction and the buyer’s.

The laws have been evolving since internet sales became large enough to matter.

For 200+ years the Constitution prohibited tax on interstate commerce. So you only paid sales tax if the buyer took delivery in the seller’s state. You could go to Mandolin Bros on Staten Island, or you could call them, or you could buy on their website, buy a $7000 guitar, have it shipped to your home state, and no sales tax was charged. The Constitution still prohibits taxes on interstate commerce, but our creative politicians have invented workarounds to reach into your pockets.

To thwart this, states would adopt a “use tax” that the buyer was supposed to voluntarily pay when the item arrived. No on paid it. In Maine about 15 years ago they threatened to start going after people for tax evasion. They established a grace period, and many people paid their use tax.

Eventually the rules were changed state by state and in blocks of states to force marketplace facilitators (Amazon, eBay, even Audiogon, etc) to collect and pay the sales tax to the buyer’s state. Colorado has the rule that even small businesses have to collect tax and send it to the buyer’s state.

There are still a handful of national dealers who are flying under the radar.

But in most transactions today, sales tax is included. NH is the only exception that I know of.

In most states it is considered a regressive tax strategy. In most states the total collected (by state, county, and city) sums to something from 6% to 11%.

[admin]

But in most transactions today, sales tax is included. NH is the only exception that I know of.

I hope it stays that way!

[Big Dog RJ]

I was having a sincere chat to a close mate just after work, and he made a lot of sense! It seemed that I was quite aloof..., so it made my senses go out of whack!

What's the big urge to upgrade amps at this stage he asked? I replied that it's a once in a lifetime purchase and prices are going up and this is probably my last chance. His reply was that I said the exact same thing when I got the Premier 8A's back in 98. So my trusted Spore mate does seem to care about some of the silly things I plan to do...

I guess the urge or itch to upgrade will always remain but what will change will be our golden ears and the ability to actually hear every detail in our favourite recordings will diminish, there's no denying it.

I'm actually considering downsizing in time to come and here I am thinking about upgrading amps! I must be looney.... as the wifey says!

Downsizing gear, I've thought about long enough and complied a short list of my top three, which should be hassle free: Dartzeel, Pass Labs and Vitus. This will be either in the form of integrated amps or just a single stereo amp driving a pair of refurbed Apogee's fully done up by Graz. This is definitely something to look forward.

Rather than chasing top dollar tube monoblocks that are Class AB, which I've already got! They're fine, and there's absolutely nothing to fault, they handle the CLX's supremely well... so just enjoy it!

Tube maintenance and monoblocks is not an easy gig. It's much easier when you're younger and have the means but when you get older and other priorities need to be in check, such as health and family or those closest to you... this is where reality sets in. The dates for Feb are set, so just for an experience I will check out the top line ART's and how well it performs driving full range stats and other ribbon panels. At least something new to look forward to and yet another learning experience for me.

Until then, do enjoy those fine tunes! They're worth it!
Cheers maties, RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

Good plan. We suffer from the same disease. We both keep thinking “What if?” We should be satisfied.

When you listen to two great amps side by side, deciding which is really better is like sampling your list of favorite flavors of ice cream … or Scotch for that matter.

Listening yesterday to the Marantz Ruby, LS28SE, LP275Ms, F228Bes focused me on why I’d liked them so so so well.

Going back to the Levinson 5101, Ref 6, Ref 75 SE, Sabrinas focused me on why I like them so so so well.

Neither system is doing anything wrong. Was it worth all the changes?

I honestly don’t know. I could live happily with either.

The downsizing has been the disappointment. I miss having two different great systems. The only solution here is remodeling to create a suitable new space. I need to go through that like I need a Carver solid state amplifier

[admin]

The age old question of "when is enough, enough?" I think we all have great systems. Yet we have a bug to try to improve upon what we have. Even if we achieve these improvement, will we be happier, or is it simply a stepping stone to the next upgrade?

As I just unwrapped my new Audioquest Rocket 88 speaker cable, I find myself asking these questions.... but darn this new cable looks nice and I can't wait to hear what it sounds like.

[Big Dog RJ]

Good stuff maties! Keep those tubes a glowing and keep those tunes a hum'n.

I sincerely believe that we have all achieved great systems of such high quality they are SOTA, without a doubt! We didn't just head out yesterday and dump over 100grand and buy hifi gear... this took years to put together. For some of us a hell of a lot longer after having to migrate from a different country and make a new home. That alone took us nearly 16 years. Yet, we finally got there!

I can confirm that all the gear we've got and carefully assembled into a system that reproduces recorded music to our utmost satisfaction, is something that we love, something that we cherish and hold as a passion. Plus we look after our beloved gear like no other! So might as well give ourselves a big round of applause for we've earned it!

Whether it's tubes or SS, CJ gear has brought us all together on this fantastic forum and we've learned and shared ideas all across the globe! How fantastic is that!

You know, what would be really great? If somewhere at some point we all met up as CJO get together. Visiting one of members systems and talking shop... I reckon we'd have a blast!

Which as a matter of speaking, if any of you are headed this way down unda, please do let me know. Would be great to have you over. My daughter will be 21 next Feb, so she's planning on moving out... that means another spare room. So I reckon it's time to share the tunes!

The wifey was asking me the other day, when kiddo moves out, we'll be all alone in this house... two spare rooms what to do...? Shall we get a dog? I said hell no! We've already got two cats and that fur ball is enough! Especially when I vacuum the stats, plenty of fine fur balls to collect...

Woof! RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

An audiophile friend of mine immediately downsized when his son moved out so that there’d be no chance for him to boomerang. That was 27 years ago.

He ended up giving up music for lack of space.

So … be thoughtful about downsizing. I liked it better before we embarked on it.

[Big Dog RJ]

Ha! Good point AJ.

Downsizing the audio gear. Just to keep things simple, I'll still use a CJ tube preamp but perhaps with a fine SS design, either Dartzeel, Pass Labs or Vitus. The CLX's are mighty fine but there will come a time where the panels will require replacing. So replacing numerous tubes in the monoblocks, plus stat panels is not a good retirement plan for me. It's manageable for now... and I plan to keep it that way for as long as possible but I'm just thinking ahead.

We'll definitely be in the same house, that's for sure but most probably with some sort of ribbon panels that can out last stats. Over here with our ML importer, they don't repair stat panels anymore, rather just replace and these aren't very affordable parts either. The main chap who used to repair, knows as the ESL whisperer has gone rouge... he's vanished and no one knows where or what happened. He was getting quite on in age and health deteriorating that we all knew this day would come.

I remember the last time I met with him, when he fully refurbed my Quad ESL 2905's & 2912's, he told me that he would like to teach me how to repair stats... I never took up the offer. I have the passion for it but no surgeon's hands...

Everything is just replaced now, nothing is ever repaired, as it's a rare breed... would have been nice to know how!
Cheers, RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

You might seriously consider something like the Sasha DAWs. They might outlast you, and Wilson as a company is (in my opinion) more committed to repairing legacy products than the current owners of Martin Logan.

[admin]

You might seriously consider something like the Sasha DAWs. They might outlast you, and Wilson as a company is (in my opinion) more committed to repairing legacy products than the current owners of Martin Logan.

I think RJ is going to be buried with his CLX's! I wouldn't blame him, I would do the same.

[AnotherJohnson]

One of the problems that all audio gear suffers is that eventually it falls out of favor. There are no exceptions unless and until the rarity and nostalgic draw of the item starts it back up the value ladder.

Old McIntosh is a good example. A $400 piece from 1965 depreciated for a decade or more, but then rebounded to regain its initial value. But as units were retired and salvaged, and as interest in Asia ignited, 40 years after it was new it commanded prices three, four, or even ten times its msrp.

Most stuff doesn’t make this iconic transformation.

Speakers are especially difficult when it comes to recouping value because, unless someone like RJ’s stat expert intervenes, they mechanically age out and die.

There is a special knack required to sell old gear at the optimal point. You usually get the most on the vintage market when guys who are 50+ start chasing the stuff that was premium when they were in their 20s.

[AnotherJohnson]

Big Dog …

https://www.osbornloudspeakers.com.au/

Lots of folks love these. You’ve got a whole industry down under and we don’t know anything about it.