ART 108A amp

[pfmmx]

The last Audio Research preamp that I demoed was an SP8 in roughly 1984. I bought a Premier 3 & have been with CJ ever since.

Audio Research is 15 minutes from my house. Good company and very good products. Other then shows, I have not listened to their newer offering in depth. For what it’s worth, I am very happy & loyal to CJ and the CJ sound.

[admin]

The last Audio Research preamp that I demoed was an SP8 in roughly 1984. I bought a Premier 3 & have been with CJ ever since.

Audio Research is 15 minutes from my house. Good company and very good products. Other then shows, I have not listened to their newer offering in depth. For what it’s worth, I am very happy & loyal to CJ and the CJ sound.

Lots of great equipment out there from many different manufacturers but for me there is something special about CJ. A subtle but unique type of sound. I can't accurately describe it, other than "it just sounds right."

[AnotherJohnson]

The last Audio Research preamp that I demoed was an SP8 in roughly 1984. I bought a Premier 3 & have been with CJ ever since.

Audio Research is 15 minutes from my house. Good company and very good products. Other then shows, I have not listened to their newer offering in depth. For what it’s worth, I am very happy & loyal to CJ and the CJ sound.

JF now has a great story to tell.

“These are being snapped up by customers who live just a few miles from ARC’s factory, they’re so good.”

[AnotherJohnson]

Just to be clear, my ARC Avoidance Hotline was meant in jest.

We all like CJ. It is an iconic sound.

I was just surprised that someone for whom ARC service was literally a short drive away would be buying into a system where cross continent shipping is the rule.

When I joked about the REF10, I had confused this thread with the ART88 thread. Your ARC competition would be the $40k pair of REF160Ms.

In direct comparison, the ART108As may be better. I wish there were some dealers who carried both. No one can second guess the purchase of the ART 108As. JF says they’re his best to date. I do not doubt him.

I’ve chosen CJ over ARC many times in my 35 years of CJ ownership. So … you’re not alone. We get it.

[Big Dog RJ]

I've tried the ARC Ref160M's with my CLX's, and although they were a good match, drove the stats well and nicely controlled, we both preferred my modded Class A monoblocks. Even the ARC rep was stunned! He knew I was seriously considering the ART108A's... hence the reason why he was trying to push the Ref160M's. In fact I was nearly there, it was also on my short list of amplifiers, apart from the dual chassis VAC statement amps (older version).

However, as some of you may be aware of my recent post on turmoil back in my home land, I simply couldn't proceed with the deal on the ART108A's. I shook my managers hand and it was actually he that put some sense into me, and asked me why I really needed these new ART amplifiers. I really couldn't come up with a valid reason other than, "they're CJ's best!" Must have... do I really need these? Even the wifey asked me the very same question in front of the manager. My reply was, No, and that's all she wrote!

Anyway, between the ARC Ref160M and ART108A's, after both of us experiencing a small mod done on an older pair of 125w Linear pentode monoblocks to operate at a higher Class A bias, there's just no comparison between the two. Considering the ART108A's and the Ref160M's, no way!

The ART108A's are in a class of their own. Most probably comparable to Aries Ceret and Kondo Audio Note Class A designs, and in SS to Pass Labs and Dartzeel's top of the line. ARC does not design Class A output gear... not yet!

Even my long term trusted dealer mate in Spore has compared the ART108A's to all the VTL, ARC, Manley Labs, Sonic Frontiers, VAC, and numerous top gear that he gets through dealerships, none of them can do what the ART108A's deliver. According to him, they're just something else, and that's the very reason I was seriously considering to close. Oh well, someone else can enjoy them. Hats off to whoever...

The ART108A's are an all out assault of CJ SOTA in amplification at its finest, driven by the passion of JF. He wanted to shift a few gears and surpass the existing ART amplifiers to levels not yet achieved by CJ tube designs, and he's done exactly that! These are his top of the line, and it will remain as CJ's true reference standard for quite a while.
Like I said, my good mate doesn't just say things to please or sugar coat... these are at a very serious level of Class A design output, and price wise is actually not too bad considering other lofty gear. Heck, 4 Odin power cords of 2m length are 40grand! I'd rather stick with the ART108A's!

Cheers, and do enjoy those very fine tunes!
Woof! RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

My posts regarding wire costs were realistic, but intended to be humorous.

What’s another $125k added to $500k?
Chump change

[AnotherJohnson]

Regarding your trial of the 160Ms, ARC believes that if your preamp is not one of their recent series, the synergy to fully exploit the 160Ms won’t be there.

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes that's correct AJ. The first trial involved only the M-series monoblocks no ARC preamp, hence no possible use of XLR connectors. Hence, had to use adapters with my CJ preamp. That wasn't too great...

On the second trial where I actually kept the M160's for a whole weekend, he lent me one of their GS series preamps, which had XLR connections, so that was much better. Overall, I did like it very much, there was nothing to fault other than the ghost meters can be distracting... you kind of get hypnotised by them, and they look pretty awesome.

However, my preference is with my modded CJ gear, it's just a personal preference that's all. Especially with CLX's, there's just something more wholesome when driven by Class A output, and it doesn't require 100s of watts either, just pure high current and stable voltage. It's definitely a beautiful thing!

Cheers, RJ

[Big Dog RJ]

The ART108A's were to be my end game in Class A monoblocks... but certainly not the end in maintaining 16 output tubes and associated costs of high powered monoblocks. The wifey reminded me of those VTL and CJ Prem 8 days, plus the massive Manley's... no fun at all. She asked me do I really want to go there again...! I said NO!
So these little beauties will have to do for now.

Cheers, RJ

[roberto]

I'm a kind of prodigal son...I'm coming from most all tube brands too. I had Sonic Frontiers, Jadis, Cary Audio, ARC, Carver tube mono blocks, VTL, etc...and when I heard the new topology design from Jeff, I was touched again by Cupid Angel. The thrower arrows hit my heart again. I am so happy with the CJ gear driving my CLXs.

Just thinking how good will sound with the ART 108A make me to have perhaps a kind of goal...to own them, but when I hear what I have, I say to myself, listen to that Roberto, aren't you happy with this? It is the first system that you have own that makes you be in the event...you have nirvana as no other system of yours...what else do you want?

My CLXs never sound as good as they are now. I am truly happy...knowing that there are much better components...

Happy listening!

[Big Dog RJ]

That's correct Robbo mate!

Like I said, once you've achieved a certain threshold of prime quality and finesse, going overboard is unnecessary, unless you were really desperate! Also, at that price point, of ART108A's, we're talking about 50grand USD, which is 70grand in AUD, by the time I import it to Aus through my CJ dealer, it will cost over 80grand and I have to pay his margin, otherwise what's the point of importing...?
I went to the bank and my manager did all the figures and we were just about to close... when I said No, cancel it!
Then my wifey she realised that I finally had my senses!

The ART108A's are outstanding amplifiers, without a doubt! This is at a very serious level, 160w of Class A! These are not toys nor for the faint hearted, and it requires big bucks!

Having said that, the amplifiers that we've already got driving our CLX's are just as good but different. They aren't pure Class A all the way but rather operate in Class AB, which drives and controls the CLX's perfectly! So why bother... unless you were really desperate and had too much to spend. As for me, I'm just fine with the monoblocks.

Your Classic 120SE is mighty fine, and with the ET7S2, that's a fine combination! I'd be happy as!

Woof! RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

RJ, you used to look for at least a 40% improvement before springing for new gear. The jump to AUD 80k would seem to be large for most. I would have a hard time justifying that check too. I could write it … but even at wholesale it would be difficult to justify. But others might not balk.

I did feel like the P12 and the William Tell Zeros were well worth their cost. As well as the Sabrinas. And the ARC REF gear, which totaled about $30k US at my price for all three components (amp, preamp, and phono) was worth it too. But these really are personal choices.

A full blown ART set up would be worth it to many. Every time JF has told me something was better, he’s turned out to be right. But $80k US for the amp and preamp, even with generous trades, is just too much for me.

[Big Dog RJ]

AJ mate, 80grand AUD is only the amplifiers... it's another 50grand for the Art88 over hear, so that's over 130grand just for pre & power alone! Here comes the dog house...

And, yes! You're right, I do look for that 40% in improvement. If it's no where near 40% then forget it! My trusted Spore mate says not 40% though compared to my modded Class A monoblocks that are truly top notch. He says about 25 % to 30% but a different kind of presentation that has more drive, control and grip, especially bring over 100w on Class A. This is a lot of effortless drive. Also very revealing on high performance speakers.

That's, another reason why I didn't close... perhaps if I didn't have other priorities and this was the only thing to look forward to in life then yes, would be nice to own these ART108A's.
Cheers, and enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ

[Big Dog RJ]

So, this arvo I had a lengthy chat with my CJ dealer mate, going over all the figures concerning the ART108A's. It seems like now is really a very bad time to be divulging in this kind of spend not knowing what the outcome would be in dollars & cts when both units finally land in Aus.

There's too much ambiguity in CIF costs, plus customs duties are a bit wishy washy...and the USD to AUD is not that flash. On top of that, Aus Post suddenly decided to put a complete stop on all sea freight due to some virus issue, so only air freight is possible, which costs five times more.

Apart from that, my dad has been unwell, nearing 90 now and lives overseas, so I guess other priorities in life take over the audio gear. So once again, I've put the whole thing off.

I'm keeping a close eye on the logistics front, hoping things would settle down to normal rates but unfortunately at this stage, everyone's trying to rip off whoever they can just to make extra couple bucks... and life goes on.

I'll revisit the transaction again after Feb, at least by mid April or May I'll know where it's heading. Looks like a huge recession is inevitable. Even the Spore dealer network pricing structure has gone completely out of whack! It seems like tubes are the only thing that are still offered at affordable rates. All highend gear has gone up over 25%, some nearing 35% increases and this is supposed to be a "duty free" market! Looks like Spore and Middle East will attract the high rollers only for a short while this time, until exchange rates are stable. Who knows when that's going to happen!

If things get really out of hand, I'll probably not get these amplifiers at all. I really don't see any point in having to pay other parties, such as logistics and customs personnel nearby 30% of the actual cost of the item! That's just ridiculous! So the amps are available for a fair sum but it's the others who are so damn greedy, knowing that these are sought after highend goods, aren't willing to be reasonable. Like I said, always ready to mess with the buyers finances...
What a load bollocks!

Anyway, I'll see how it goes after April/May. Might as well just enjoy what I've already got! For you never know what it's truly worth until it's gone!
Cheers, RJ

[admin]

RJ,

Very sorry to hear about your dad's health issues. It's been a rough past year with my mom, so I know the feeling. Best wishes.

As for the ART108A's, it's too bad that things are not aligning on that front. Can't imagine how good the latest and greatest from CJ sounds.

Question, considering the relatively large cost of the units, costly shipping rate,... what would happen if you just booked a flight to the US, bought them here, and simply flew back and checked them in as luggage? Do you think customs would flag the units and charge some fees? I know it sounds crazy but it just seems like it would be much cheaper.

[AnotherJohnson]

It would be a risk, even to the US from Europe unless declaration forms are no longer in play.

Confiscation and fines or other penalties would not be worth the risk.

Frankly, if the predicted collapse occurs, you’d better not count on reselling to recoup losses. All of these things will be boat anchors.

Related story, and we’re not even in a recession according to our official government.

My new Sasha DAWs are being built, but I considered a used pair that was being offered for $28k at the time I committed to new.

The used pair has now gone through several price drops and is being offered for $21something. I predict it will fall further.

So expensive high end audio has a limited resale market in the best of times. And the best of times do not appear to be in the offing.

Of course if you’ve got deep pockets and don’t care, the downturn will be the time to stock up. Like when CLX Arts were offered used for $10k to $12k after Covid panic set in.

[Joe Appierto]

You three are depressing me.

Especially since you all make valid points.

AJ, I think you've previously made the perfectly valid point that someone looking at a $380k speaker may not find them all that attractive at $250 used (I'm sure I have the numbers wrong). Maybe it's creeping a whole bunch down the price line?

It seems that a bunch of the big high-end money is very international and those guys/gals are pretty well insulated from economic swings.

Of course, what do I know, my 2¢, YMMV, etc.

[AnotherJohnson]

I think your $.02 is on the money.

Some are well insulated, but they’re not buying used.

I read a thread on another forum the other day. It was an angry customer type thread. The fellow had apparently financed his dream system, and three particular components had needed customer service. He was quite upset that the customer service had not met his hopes or expectations.

My first thought was “Who on earth lent this guy an amount well into 6 figures to buy an audio system?”

Then I realized that such cash could easily be obtained through refinancing real estate.

I think that many who have refinanced real estate to get cash out are going to be in trouble as the real estate market contracts … which is inevitable based on the huge short term gains of the 2020 to early 2022 run up that now seems to be correcting itself.

[Joe Appierto]

Bubbles burst.

Tulips, real estate, etc. and someone is left holding the balloon fragments. We may be in for another one.

I sincerely hope not but it looks that way.

[AnotherJohnson]

I’ve read about the collapse of the tulip market. Speculating should always be limited to petty cash type funds. It was especially surprising to me that the Dutch drove the tulip trade (in light of their stereotypical tendency to be frugal, and to drive hard bargains).

I doubt that the tulip collapse is taught any more. We’ve lost the love of studying useful history and seem more focused on destruction through reconstruction of history. Aesop understood humans better than most alive today.

The Great Reset, and the idea that we are in an economic transition, seem to be an excuse for tearing down the foundations of the success of the West.

Sigh … at least for now we can continue to “enjoy those fine tunes.” But I am reminded of Nero enjoying his violin.

YMMV … I hope mine does.