ART 108A amp

[bear]

So who is going to be the first to buy CJ's new $48K Class A 160 watt monoblock amplifier featuring 8 KT88s per channel?

[admin]

I thought it was $24k for a pair? If it's truly $48k, then I'm not sure what spot it takes up in their lineup as the ART300 pretty much covers that price point.

[AnotherJohnson]

The earlier thread:

https://www.conradjohnsonowners.com/vie ... php?t=2279

[roberto]

They are away of my needs. Priority things goes first.

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes, agree with the particular price point, and in relation to the category of other ART series amplifiers.

I believe in this case, it's placed within the category of Class A rated amplifiers. Therefore, the only other Class A power rated amp, is the ART27A. So this would be the monoblock version for Class A. Whereas, with the ART300's, that's within the category of Class AB amplifiers... sort of makes sense I guess.

Definitely not happening down unda though. The last ART27A just sold only one item, and that was last year around Sept/Oct. Then only one ART150 arrived, and that's still sitting pretty in the demo room since last Nov. Not a single pair of ART300's have been sold, merely because the price tag on those in $AUD is around 50grand. The ART150 is close to 30grand, and the one and only ART27A sold for just under 30grand. Hence, if these new ART108A's are to land down unda, it would be close to 80grand, a pair! I sincerely don't think so...

However, like I mentioned in my other post, definitely a serious contender for other top tier markets.
Would be nice though to learn if anyone has auditioned and what their impressions are. Do let us know.

Cheers, RJ

[roberto]

I just realised:

Latest product with the best parts available. And 160 Pure Class A watts... this is a dream product.

[AnotherJohnson]

I just realised:

Latest product with the best parts available. And 160 Pure Class A watts... this is a dream product.

Bingo!

[Big Dog RJ]

There's no doubt that Class A will have an added advantage over key elements:
1. The overall performance of the output stage.
2. better control of transients
3. better grip on notorious loads
4. Higher current capacity
5. Tonal accuracy- in terms of a more lively presentation, fuller energy and power levels on dynamic peaks, where Class A allows for this.

These 5 points is what I've found the monoblocks to do so well compared to their previous standard versions. However, it really doesn't matter whether the Class A operation is better or not, what really matters is how well the amplifiers are capable of controlling and driving the speakers efficiently, without strain, to a scale of more realism. If not for the CLX's, I would have been fully content with the amplifiers just the way they were. Once I experienced the benefits of Class A tube power, only then did I realise their true potential when driving full range stats. Although these kinds of mods are always tricky, and expensive, plus requiring the best skills, I do believe it was worth it, even at just 60w more of Class A bias to squeeze.

Looking really forward to auditioning these latest Class A monoblocks from CJ, and offering a platform of 160w of Class A- full tube power, these are truly unique. I'm really not surprised at the price tag, I guess they're worth every penny.
One thing for sure is if and when they do land down unda, we're looking at over 70grand easy... poof! There goes the wifey's fuse, and I'm thrown back into the dog house....woof!

Got news that the first pair is arriving in Spore but not sure that Int'l air travel is going to be any easier than it already is... it's getting harder, and our border force ABF are pretty strict!
Will have to see how it goes.

Until such time... cheers
RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

The speakers certainly are a factor in hearing EVERY change made.

The switching distortion is what you get rid of. Better speakers may show it off more, but efficient speakers may never need to get to the switch point.

Ears are always the test, and the proof. I’d like to hear the 108As. Or maybe not … I’ve resisted the ART 300s successfully. It is much less expensive to resist.

[Big Dog RJ]

Greetings from down unda!

Just a quick update, and a few questions...
So my long time trusted CJ connoisseur importer in Spore is still waiting on delivery of these beauties... in the meantime we were both wondering why the amplifier has three trannys instead of the usual two... specifically if it's supposed to be monaural?

So, he's thinking there's actually a stereo version, which is the one featured on Facebook, and the monoblock version is yet to be released.

Any ideas as to which is what? Also, CJ has not yet officially released the ART108A's on their website. Not sure why they've released it on FB but the CJ Website should have been given precedence over FB. Any ideas on this?

Been trying to check with CJ HQ's on this but they're fairly busy... so will try again shortly.
Two ART27A's would make up a monoblock version of a Class A output power amp. However, in this case a fairly high powered one! Making an equally powerful stereo version of Class A at 160w doesn't make sense, in which case the stereo version would be rated at 80w instead of 160w... this has been the norm so far.

So, not so sure exactly what this model is and why three trannys... is the third tranny used for Class A bias high power? I'm not sure.

Best, RJ

[admin]

All good questions. Not sure what the middle smaller area is. It is vented which makes make me think a transformer goes in there but, I guess it could be just an empty space designed for heat dissipation for other internal components. I'm trying to think of amps that have 3 transformers and I have seen those before. Not sure what the extra amp is used for,... perhaps the controller circuits?

It is unusual that CJ is releasing information on facebook before their website. I don't know how much to read into that. It may be that it's easier for Jeff to make a facebook post than update the website. Who knows?

[AnotherJohnson]

1. It is easier for low budget operations to post on Facebook than to update a web site. Non A-list Music artists made this shift about 8 or 9 years ago, and it’s made it more difficult to follow them.

2. As for the 3 transformers idea, I think it’s a red herring.

I think that either the photos are of a mock-up stereo version, … or the middle rectangle is not a transformer but just a casework choice. The 3 small tubes and 8 power tubes look like a standard recent history CJ monoblock to me.

[Big Dog RJ]

Mmm... seems like it. According to my Spore mate, he reckons it's another tranny, most probably isolating the input circuit from the output stage, having further separate power supplies, and leading towards that raw Class A power that is in high demand, after all 160w is not puny watts, that's serious Class A!

The amount of work that was put in to mod my monoblocks to just 60w of Class A was no easy task... this is 160w of Class A, that's a lot of tranny redesign going on.
Let's see how it goes, we'll know when he finally takes delivery next month ending.

Cheers, RJ

[Big Dog RJ]

G'day maties, it has arrived!

CJ has finally updated their website with the official launch of the ART108A's alongside the ART27A. Ah! Just as I thought. So, basically if you wanted a stereo version in Class A it's the ART27A. If you wanted a more powerful version, it's the ART108A monoblocks.
Pricing is just about right, which is included on the website:
ART27A $22grand
ART108A $48grand (per pair) both offered in limited editions and shipments have commenced.

Speaking of shipments, my Spore mate has received the first pair! That third gold plate tranny in the middle, is in fact a separate tranny dedicated for the input & driver stages, completely isolated from the mains output stage. So when looking at the front of the amp or from the top: the first tranny on the far right is the mains tranny then the input/driver tranny (with gold top plate) and far left is the output tranny, and so this is a monoblock!

Both the ART27A and ART108A's are meant for higher efficiency speakers with relatively easy loads... they are designed around the KT88 config, and their strengths lie in the midband. He says the top end frequency extension is fantastic as all CJ amps are known for. The bass is tight and fast, nothing overblown or too deep. The winner is the midrange, it has an unbelievable level of palpablility. Imaging, holographic soundstage depth and 3- Dimensionality is simply supreme reference! According to him, if that's what you're after then these are the ultimate so far designed and handmade by the CJ crew.

OTOH, if you're after a fuller sound, higher level of dynamics, wide dynamic swings that have full impact, limitless extension and absolute control then the ART150 and ART300's are still the ultimate.

In his opinion, due to the complete redesign of the trannys and added power supplies in order to deliver that high power of Class A of 160w, this is where the cost factor increases considerably because CJ doesn't compromise on parts & quality, they use only the best, hence the price tag.

So there you have it folks! He was using them initially on the latest Alsyvox ribbons with the outboard crossovers and says it's a truly awe-inspiring experience. Later on, next week, he plans to connect them to the CLX's, claims that it will sound truly remarkable. Well I can certainly imagine so, just need to fly over there and check it out for myself!

Cheers, now that deserves a mighty WOOF!!!
RJ

[admin]

Thank for the update RJ. I was wondering about that tranny configuration. Sounds like amazing units. Glad to hear CJ is still at the top of their game.

[AnotherJohnson]

CJ That third gold plate tranny in the middle, is in fact a separate tranny dedicated for the input & driver stages, completely isolated from the mains output stage. So when looking at the front of the amp or from the top: the first tranny on the far right is the mains tranny then the input/driver tranny (with gold top plate) and far left is the output tranny, and so this is a monoblock!

Of course it’s a monoblock. Even journalists couldn’t screw that up.

I remain skeptical about the utility of three transformers in a monoblock. I suppose he could be dividing the power supply into two distinct entities instead of tapping the transformer as needed for the assorted necessary voltages. Maybe there are precedents. I will look forward to the early reviews. He often is willing to give details to reviewers like Tone. Hope reviews are forthcoming.

[AnotherJohnson]

I don’t mean to minimize the potential excitement of the launch. This is an exciting product, and it fills three purposes.

1. It makes the ART150 and ART300 seem affordable.

2. It pushes the tube Class A amp concept to new limits.

3. It provides a CJ offering at a price point where someone with deep pockets might consider it instead of some other absurdly priced elite offering (D’Agostino, etc).

[admin]

I remain skeptical about the utility of three transformers in a monoblock. I suppose he could be dividing the power supply into two distinct entities instead of tapping the transformer as needed for the assorted necessary voltages.

It is an interesting design. However, I have to believe that there was a reason for putting 3 transformers into the unit. CJ prides itself on simplicity of design. If they could get away with two transformers (or even one) without negatively affecting the sound quality, I am sure they would have gone that route.

I too look forward to the results.

[Big Dog RJ]

According to my trusted mate in Spore, he says that there could actually be more than 3 trannys. The mains & output trannys are completed isolated and for this particular design, CJ decided to have a dedicated tranny and discrete power supplies just for the input & driver stages. He reckons that there's probably another tranny looking after the input stage alone but not too sure as he really has no requirement to open it up and have a look.

Also, according to him this amplifier looks stunning! The pics on the website and on FB are just about ok... but in person in full glory, it's an absolute marvel! Same goes with the ART27A, another stunning amplifier as it is, the pics don't quite display it properly.

It's funny how photos work in the human brain...

I'm very very excited about these monoblocks and am seriously thinking... After all, this is what I've been striving for to drive CLX's to full potential, that Class A operation is like no other! I've done a full SE upgrade and Class A mod on my monoblocks and it drives the CLX's effortlessly, so why bother. However, that's the question... apparently these things driving the Alsyvox ribbons are in a totally unique dimension, so with full range stats, such as the CLX's, this is a match made in heaven!

I think I'll have to play it down... after all this kind of spend is too criminal, I'm not ever in this financial camp, and I believe in my morals and ethics. If only these were 10grand less then perhaps... will have to give it some thought.
Here comes the

To anyone seriously considering these monoblocks, I truly admire y'all! Hats off to you sirs.

Cheers, and a Class A WOOF!
RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

I remain skeptical about the utility of three transformers in a monoblock. I suppose he could be dividing the power supply into two distinct entities instead of tapping the transformer as needed for the assorted necessary voltages.

It is an interesting design. However, I have to believe that there was a reason for putting 3 transformers into the unit. CJ prides itself on simplicity of design. If they could get away with two transformers (or even one) without negatively affecting the sound quality, I am sure they would have gone that route.

I too look forward to the results.

You can’t really get away with one. You need one for the power supply and one to couple to the speakers. They have different inputs. One from the mains, and one from the output tubes.