Tube dampers

[AnotherJohnson]

Are you now a believer?

I’ve said all along that if the tube is microphonic, it might help.

As for ARC dampers melting, etc… I still think either they are aftermarket add ons, or the component is very old, or the component is in a very hot environment.

CR qualifies as a very hot environment. Maybe they all melt in your neck of the woods. I’ve never doubted your story that they’ve melted. I’ve just doubted that they were OEM or not too hot.

I hope the volcano is giving you a rest. I’ve had you on my mind this week.

[roberto]

AJ,
Our weather is not too bad. Usually the temperature is around 25°C, this is the best temperature of the world, don't you think. We have only two seasons, dry that last 4 to 5 months and wet. Dry starts on December, and usually the first days of April, we start to have rain. The rain is usually at the afternoon, for two or three hours. When there are at the tropic bad weather, like heavy storms and similar, we can have a whole week rain, and rain like cats and dogs. The months that usually are really wet are August and October. The humidity can hit up to 90%...really humid.

Enjoy your new toys. It is good that you are that happy.

Happy listening!

[AnotherJohnson]

I think playing with all this gear has been therapeutic and it is forcing me to consider a wide range of issues as we attempt to downsize.

I didn’t really think much about McIntosh, Levinson, Krell, or ARC in recent years. Then the goal of consolidating into one place loomed larger, and I really wanted to go into the next stage of life with lighter amps and speakers.

So rather than move “the good stuff,” I started trying new things if “the deal” was one that would be nearly reversible.

The McIntosh integrated had a very short life here, although I loved its weight.

The Levinson/B&W has now been here for nearly two months. The integrated amp is at the limits of what I am willing to deal with with at 62 pounds. The speaker size is very manageable… but compared to the full range Revels, they’re a compromise. I think that system may find a permanent home here.

The ARC gear is the big surprise. Something about it must be clearer since I can more easily understand the sung operatic German … and then there is the question “how much detail can you enjoy?” The REF 75 SE has the best weight of the lot, and more than enough power to handle the Revels.

Then there is the stalwart CJ system, based on the ET7S2 and one time flagship LP275Ms. I love it. Very special indeed, but the weight of the amps is daunting.

So I’m occupied with first world problems. And, of course, it is good to be occupied …

I’m anxious for my TEA1 to come back from CJ. I hope they put it on the bench quickly. I wonder if they’ll install tube dampers, and if they do, will the be in pairs touching at the height of the getter.

[roberto]

Having good quality goods on hands make life better. You can enjoy the music more and more. Also, the fun to listen different gear makes you be happy and enjoying every minute. This is our beloved hobby and also being in our age, we have the time to enjoy them!

I know that out there are better products and will make me happy too. But what I have now, is so Fu**** good that I am enjoying my system as never before. Something snapped here for good, and I am really enjoying the soul of every musician...is unbelievable!

Have fun dear friend!

[AnotherJohnson]

It may be analogous to Nero fiddling while Rome burned, or Poe’s fictional classic’s Prospero (Masque of the Red Death).

Stuff = fun. Fun = fleeting happiness. Better than no happiness.

I know you know that lasting happiness and contentment come from elsewhere. There is no lasting contentment that derives from stuff.

[roberto]

This is my understanding of fun= entertainment , amusement , good time, fun and games, leisure , merriment, a laugh, pleasant , pleasing, fun , entertaining , amusing , delightful , likable, good , nice , agreeable , engaging , to sb's taste, to sb's liking, gratifying, satisfying, pleasurable, delectable, diverting, I might be mistaken...

[AnotherJohnson]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LCRZZC-DH7M

Reminds me of Marlena Dietrich.

I don’t agree with the philosophy myself. There is more.

[AnotherJohnson]

I didn’t realize this … but the song was first offered to Barbara Streisand and her manager turned it down. Then to Marlena Dietrich who turned it down herself.

Peggy was the third. It won her a Grammy and reignited her dead career.

https://www.vulture.com/2015/04/is-that ... y-lee.html

[Wildcat]

I use them almost hitting the bottom of the tube. The ones that CJ uses. They are red to orange colour. I don't think that they harm the quality sound.

I just found this thread. What CJ uses, and some others sell at high prices, are nothing more than bog standard silicone o-rings you can find at any industrial supply company. One of the industrial distributors I used to work at purchased o-rings in bulk, and the real cost of these from a manufacturer is so incredibly inexpensive that for smaller sizes of standard black o-rings, we could probably get hundreds for each dollar.

While o-rings can be manufactured in any color desired, typically pure silicone o-rings are the reddish color the same as the o-rings that CJ uses. A friend of mine bought some silicone o-rings from his workplace and I bought a handful from him--I went with a fatter o-ring than what CJ uses and they fit nicely on my small signal tubes. $1.60 for a pack of 10. (His company probably pays a very small fraction of that for the thousands of o-rings they sell per year.)

I also made a turntable belt with bulk square silicone o-ring material. I had to buy a small tube of Sil-Poxy to join the ends, and had to cut them using an o-ring cutting block so the ends would be square, but it worked out perfectly. The belt will not age like rubber, grips better, and I noticed wow and flutter was substantially reduced. (Very heavy platter.)

[roberto]

Hola Chicos,

I got today for repair an Audio Research VS55. A very nice unit. Now, I can say that the o-rings are melted. I repaired with bad power tubes and bad bias resistors...the unit is singing good.

B0759BA9-7F41-4A87-A8D4-B5BBC3CF387A 3.JPG (1.6 MiB) Viewed 3583 times

A8A26D2A-0806-4C78-9A8B-F9CAB5E3C671 3.JPG (2.11 MiB) Viewed 3583 times

[AnotherJohnson]

None of these you show look stock. All look like aftermarket.

[admin]

That must have gotten pretty dang hot to melt the rings like that.

[AnotherJohnson]

That must have gotten pretty dang hot to melt the rings like that.

The other issue is that ARC small tubes reportedly have lives of 4000 hours. Long time to sit in the heat.

On the assorted DIY forums, curmudgeons rant against both CJ and ARC. They know that CJ and ARC designed too close to the limits and ruined things. If only people were brighter, they wouldn’t waste their money on such junk.

[roberto]

None of these you show look stock. All look like aftermarket.

No Aj, these are the original o-rings. But you are right. They have over 15 to 20 years getting heat. As I said before, it is a material made fatigue. The good thing is that I am now using the CJ o-rings with it.

Did I mention that I was related with Parlatek SA, the ARC representative in the 2000s? Now it is handle by other Company. ARC owners know that I can provide service to their goods.

[roberto]

Also I wrote that the next ARC amp with a melted o-rings, I will take the pics. The new o-rings are different made material.

[roberto]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=htt ... AdAAAAABAR

here, you can see the dampers.

[AnotherJohnson]

https://www.arcdb.ws/

That web site is curated by a third party and is not affiliated with ARC.

Look … I’m not arguing that you find them melted.

But if someone put these poor quality square O-rings on CJ tubes and left them for 15 years, they’d probably melt too.

In my case I’ve owned at least 11 pieces of CJ tube gear, and not one has had tube dampers installed. Not even among the 7 or so pieces that came directly from the factory.

For whatever reason, ARC seems to install them on just about everything while CJ installs them on just about nothing … even changing the owner’s manual for the TEA2 so that I have one version that mentions them, and a later version that does not.

Tube dampers are a red herring. Melting tube dampers are a sign of a separate problem with heat, age, or materials.

I hope in this most recent case you tossed the tubes instead of cleaning them up. They’re hideous.

Glad you got the integrated going.

I think a far bigger issue with ARC vs CJ is that CJ uses plate fuses while ARC lets the resistors burn out. That’s gotta be a plus for CJ.

[roberto]

I got brand new this amp and many others in the middle of the 90s and to the middle of 2000s, These o-rings are original factory dampers. I do not know a better English language to explain myself clear. They were melted due time. So what? I just replaced them and no big deal. ARC used them long time ago. Now, they are using a different ones. I don't see any problem here. You are keeping saying that they are not original parts from ARC and sorry my dear friend, you are wrong because I did open a lot of sealed amplifiers and preamplifiers boxes and installed them into the small tubes for the customers.

I was just showing that they were melt and nothing else. Parts get old and there is no culprit also. Customers here don't change to often the tubes, they want them for ever, even that I have told them to change them every 2000 hours (about 4 years of normal use). The melted o-rings to me is a customer's culprit. There is no o-ring that lasts forever. If you look the o-rings, are the same that the pics are showing.

[Wildcat]

Just revisiting this thread, I'm betting ARC was using an inappropriate o-ring material for the tubes. In other words, temperature limits for the material they used were too close to the hottest temperature range of the tube.

The rust (red/orange) silicone o-rings used by C-J and others are commodity items, and that particular type of o-ring can withstand up to 450°F/230°C. I've measured fully warmed tubes in a couple of different applications with an infrared thermometer and they rarely got hotter than 360°F. (All small sizes.)

This is a chart of common o-ring materials and temperatures:

https://websealinc.com/technical-info/o ... ure-guide/

Also, a guide to some common o-ring colors:

https://www.globaloring.com/oring-colors/

There are different formulations of silicone rubber, but the type used for rust-colored o-rings is typically what I posted above, and the most common durometer (stiffness) rating is 70, which I purchased. I've used silicone o-rings purchased from an industrial distributor for several years now and they are still as supple as the day I bought them and aside from size, look and feel no different from C-J's factory-supplied o-rings.

[admin]

Never had one of these dampeners melt on me.