Odd comparo upcoming

[admin]

Can't wait to get the ET7s2 tomorrow. May take me a day or two to get it in the system but I should be enjoying the tunes by the end of the week. Fun stuff.

[Big Dog RJ]

Good stuff Admin! I'm sure you'll be impressed with it, plus it's come a long way from the PV12... very long way!

Let us know your findings and how it matches with the ART amplifiers. Should be mighty fine indeed.
Cheers, RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

AJ,
What is your impression of the Levinson control app, I think they call it "5Kontrol" or something like that? I know a lot of people decide on their streamer based on the control app.

FWIW, a lot of CD and network players are controlled by overlapping signals, eg. the remote control on/off signal is the same on the Marantz players I have here, as well as the Rossini and the Levinson 5101. Since these are line of sight affected, the problem of multiple devices being started or stopped when the remote on button is pressed can be controlled to some extent by not stacking the affected components on the same rack.

But I’ve organized the components so that the Levinson 5101 and dCS Rossini are close enough that both change their on/off status when the Levinson remote power button is activated.

This can be annoying, and so tonight I put the Levinson on my Ethernet and reinstalled 5Kontrol on my iPhone.

It works perfectly … and since the 5101 and phone are both on the Ethernet, a signal sent to the 5101 ONLY affects the 5101. The dCS remote, Mosaic, was already in use for the Rossini, so it did not affect the 5101.

The 5Kontrol app is free at the App Store. The 5101 is capable of pulling music from a NAS over the Ethernet. All of the functions available through the normal remote menus are also available through 5Kontrol, including on and off.

[admin]

More and more devices are going the route of digital control. Some components don't even have remotes any longer. Having more options for control is good but I worry that support may not continue in future years. An infrared remote is going to be good for essentially forever. The app will need constant updated to continue to be able to be run on iOS/Android. Will these control apps still function in 10, 20, 30,... years like our remotes?

[Joe Appierto]

admin raises a good point and it's a classic example of decontenting. Why not save $X by having the customer use his/her own phone instead of supplying them with a remote? The manufacturer picks up the difference in cost while charging the same for the product. It's just like a "pound" can of coffee actually weighing in at 10.5 ounces.

[AnotherJohnson]

More and more devices are going the route of digital control. Some components don't even have remotes any longer. Having more options for control is good but I worry that support may not continue in future years. An infrared remote is going to be good for essentially forever. The app will need constant updated to continue to be able to be run on iOS/Android. Will these control apps still function in 10, 20, 30,... years like our remotes?

It’s nice to have both available when the handheld dedicated remotes overlap signals. Better to have both if you can.

What I am seeing in different products is that the remote is an option … dCS, for example, will sell you a very nice one, but the phone/tablet app is free. The unit is in their words “future proof” because of their software, firmware, and hardware updating. dCS appear to me to make one remote control that is universal over their product line.

With Burmester, the remote is an option too. But their future proofing is to make the control usefully functional from the front panel because not everyone wants to own a complex device with confusing flexibility. Burmester appear to make two remotes over their product line. And they are not universal in that the functions available on one remote might not include a function you’d like on a device. Burmester is not networking their control though. It’s either front panel or very nicely made optional hand held.

Roon doesn’t make any pretense about remotes. They’re 100% on the phone/tablet networked auto updating track.

ARC has not strayed from the hand held dedicated device. One for preamps and one for phono preamps. No over the network control.

McIntosh might be working on network control, but I know my two McIntosh boxes here would not be compatible if they introduce one. Neither has any connectivity capability.

McIntosh remotes vary widely from chintzy plastic junk to nicer, more elegant pieces. They’re anything but universal, there are a gajillion of them, and they even retire/discontinue hand held IR remotes (like the original remote used for the MA5200) so the instruction book doesn’t match up with the supplied McIntosh replacement remote that Mcintosh sends you to replace your now broken or lost official original.

Aside from HEOS, I don’t see a Denon/Marantz trend toward over the network control. They are one of the worst offenders in the overlapping device IR instruction set department. It is a nuisance to have two or three Denon/Marantz remote controlled devices in your system. Their network players, CD players, and integrated amps will all react when you try to turn one on or off.

I did enjoy being able to control the 5101 without its instructions affecting the status of the Rossini last night

[AnotherJohnson]

This is an heretical viewpoint for this forum, but the other thing that’s in play in user/manufacturer psychology is the expected life of a product.

CJ has always appealed to people who are satisfied, and indeed more comfortable, in the past. Many CJ aficionados don’t even want to consider the 21st Century offerings. Probably more than half of the questions about CJ products posted here are about products in the 15 years old to 40 years old category. So a lot of CJ owners thank their lucky stars that there may not even be an IR remote for their model. And virtually no owners are thinking “Gee, I wish this were balanced, I wish the remote offered more functions, I wish this was networked. These things just don’t come up.

In a large part of the modern era high end, the consumers have no intention of keeping a unit beyond a couple of generations of advances. Take Roberto’s ARC Ref 5, for example. He loved his ET7 and ET7s2 more … and rightly so. They sound better. But the Ref 6SE sounds better still. People who are moving on as the manufacturers improve do not really worry about the possibility that in 10 years the operating system might not be supportable. We’ve been conditioned by the computer industry. We buy the best computer available. Five years later it is slow. 10 years later (or less) it is no longer possible to keep the OS current, hence using it for many tasks is risky due to security issues. And the sluggish speed levels.

So we upgrade every five years to the next best thing.

Same with serious SOTA audio. The advances of every five to ten years are easily audible to my ears.

Burmester is an outlier though. They seem to introduce their products at the cutting edge, and then do mk2, mk3, mk5 upgrades over decades … and still stun with their sonic performance.

In any event, I’m no longer the kind of guy who buys a PV11/MF2200 and hears bliss. Neither am I the kind of guy who writes a $48k check for a pair of new ART 108As. I still look for deals, and I limit my search to current or very recent models. Over the many decades, the advances are real. They may not be worth it to every listener or every budget. That’s OK.

But if you want SOTA audio, you’re not worried about what happens to the remote ten years down the road.

[Joe Appierto]

You know what we do with heretics around here, pardner.

[AnotherJohnson]

[admin]

This is an heretical viewpoint for this forum, but the other thing that’s in play in user/manufacturer psychology is the expected life of a product.

CJ has always appealed to people who are satisfied, and indeed more comfortable, in the past. Many CJ aficionados don’t even want to consider the 21st Century offerings. Probably more than half of the questions about CJ products posted here are about products in the 15 years old to 40 years old category. So a lot of CJ owners thank their lucky stars that there may not even be an IR remote for their model. And virtually no owners are thinking “Gee, I wish this were balanced, I wish the remote offered more functions, I wish this was networked. These things just don’t come up.

Very true. Definitely a more "classic" mindset for most CJ owners. I have to admit that I like have a remote with the ET7s2 (and my PV-14L) but it would not be a deal breaker for me. I can understand that for most it's a non-starter. Maybe a non-starter if they can't control their gear with a phone?

[AnotherJohnson]

I have to admit that I like have a remote with the ET7s2 (and my PV-14L) but it would not be a deal breaker for me. I can understand that for most it's a non-starter. Maybe a non-starter if they can't control their gear with a phone?

From my pov, the networked remote adds a lot of value today. At the start of 2022, not so much.

If you put a Marantz PM-KI integrated or SA-KI SACD player and a Marantz ND8006 network player together on one rack, when you hit the button on one of the IR remotes, it is an adventure. YOU WILL BE WALKING TO THE RACK TO SORT IT OUT.

The Levinson and Rossini … same thing. They must buy those components from the same manufacturer.

5Kontrol and Mosaic don’t interact. They control only the assigned device.

In early 2022 I was still sorting out an unreliable LAN and I had no interest. Now I really appreciate it.