PV15 or Classic 2/2se

[roberto]

Hola Joe,

Those O-rings prevent from ringing the sensitive tube. This tube could be bad, and with these o-rings, the possible unwanted oscillation might be tamed.

When I worked at Teletica Canal 7, a broadcasting TV, there were repeaters all over the country, and these repeater were made by tubes. My work was as an assistant of the Engineer Service Dpt. So I had to provide the service to this repeaters. The use of these o-rings really help at that time. Touching the chassis or tapping it, without the o-ring, the transmitter was very unstable.

Conrad Johnson provides these o-rings with the new goods. There must be a reason why. I just think that they are to prevent a possible tube oscillation.

I agree with you. Using them or not, I could not hear any difference.

Happy listening!

[AnotherJohnson]

I’ve been digging around in the owners manuals of current and vintage products.

Some, including GAT, include them.

I’ve gotten 11 pieces of gear directly shipped from CJ in sealed boxes, and not one of the things I’ve gotten from them have had the dampers included.

But they do call them out in some owners manuals, including some recent ones.

Another red herring to vex the high anxiety listener.

[Rubicon15]

Great discussion and candid feedback. Since I haven’t received my ET3se yet, I don’t know if CJ included dampers. I don’t believe the original owner ever opened the hood. The owner told me the preamp was lightly used and still had the original tube installed. He only used the preamp a few hours in a two week time period. Unlike a previous reply, the ET3se manual does not reference dampers. The line stage preamp’s gain is only 25dB. This may not warrant the use of a damper. I will give CJ a call next week and report back to the group.

[Joe Appierto]

It could be a red herring.

CJ may have included outdated verbiage from earlier times. I bought my 17LS from Spearit Sound and besides the manual stating that the tube dampers should be used my unit included them. I bought my 16LS2 from an owner who hadn't even figured out how to remove the tube cage and it included the O-rings so I doubt he just spontaneously decided to add them.

It may also be that someone in shipping and quality control was asleep at the wheel and that's why none of your 11 sealed box pieces didn't include the O-rings.

[AnotherJohnson]

None of that explains the owner’s manual variations though. It also seems unlikely given that the period of time is on the order of a decade.

I’ve never seen them mentioned in the owners manuals for the components I’ve bought from them.

Maybe they make a conscious decision to include them in some models and not include them with others.

As I’ve said from the first post, at worst, they’re harmless. I disagree with Kevin’s idea that killing uncontrollable reverb in an audio reproduction circuit is bad. It’s good.

So … let’s see … in my present set up I’ve got at least 17 small tubes. Maybe I should write a check for $750 (with tax and shipping) and try Hal-Os . NOT.

I’d start an audiophile focused accessory business, but I would not be able to sleep at night. Just reading all the tweak products, and watching the lemming like lineup … it’s not for me.

[Rubicon15]

AJ, I think we are in total agreement. However, you definitely raised my level of curiosity. I wonder why CJ uses dampers on their high end equipment and not their entire lineup. The cost of silicone dampers is low compared to Herbie’s. I’m not an electrical engineer but with a gain of only 25dB, I have no idea if there would be any measurable difference, let alone a sonic difference that is audible to the human ear. Maybe an engineer can shed some light on this topic.

[AnotherJohnson]

They’re harmless, and may have some benefit in some applications. My Audio Research gear included dampers for the small tubes. I never did any A to B direct comparisons of with or without.

Swapping tubes in and out of gear is hard on the tubes and the sockets. Because of the heat, it takes significant time, even just to take dampers on and off and on again.

1. Buy dampers. 2. Put them on. 3. Fahgeddaboudem. Or go to step 3 first.

Engineer’s response.

PhD. Registered Professional Engineer in two states. Corporate Specialist for Vibration Analysis and Noise Control for the now defunct Kodak. Editor of several professional journals. Masters directed by most celebrated acoustician of the late 20th century. Blah blah blah.

Try ‘em. They can’t hurt. In some marginal situation, they might be better. Or not.

“What IS a caucus race? Said Alice …”

As an engineer, I try to temper my responses with respect for hearing differences, and with belief in Roberto’s common mantra that you are the best one to determine what sounds best to you in your system.

[Rubicon15]

AJ, your credentials are impressive. It sounds like, no pun intended, that we don’t have any measurable data from a controlled setting to validate the advantages of dampers. I think we are all aware of the placebo effect…

[AnotherJohnson]

Instead of being directed to a lost lover, we can apply this to the whimsical nature of audiophile equipment.

https://www.google.com/search?q=losing+ ... s-wiz-serp

[Rubicon15]

Agreed, great classic song!

[Rubicon15]

Follow up question. My amp is phase correct and the ET3SE is phase inverted. According to CJ, since I have an odd number, I need to change the positive and negative connections on my speakers. I’ve never been confronted with this issue. I have read a number of threads that describe little to no noticeable sonic improvements. At times, the recording may impact the outcome. As an electrical engineer, what are your thoughts?

[admin]

All things being equal, you should try to have it phase correct. So if you have an odd number of inverting components, flip the speaker wires. CJ recommends correcting for phase inversions.

[AnotherJohnson]

The truth is there is no way to know how many inversions there are because it depends on the initial recording system, right from the microphones, all the way to the mixing console.

The theory is that a wave that first hits your ear as a peak pressure sounds different from a wave at the same frequency that first hits as its trough counterpart.

But to count the inversions, you have to assume that everything was correct when it got onto the storage medium.

AR includes a button on the remote to invert “on the fly.” Then you can compare inverted to not inverted. Their gear does not introduce inversions. They put it there to correct recordings for those who feel sensitive.

The differences running the AR invert button are subtle on most program material in my opinion. But there’s the rare odd case here or there where it’s noticeable.

Nevertheless, with that said, I do invert my speaker wires if I’m running a CJ preamp that inverts.

My advice is hook it up inverted today and listen. Tomorrow switch it back and listen. The next day reverse again.

If you can convince yourself it is noticeable, pick the one you like best.

[AnotherJohnson]

FWIW, transient mid to high frequency attacks are where it should be most noticeable. Think piano, for example.

Listen to whole musical pieces, not just the transient clips.

In my opinion, time spent in speaker placement and room treatment will pay bigger dividends.

But this phase issue is why AR includes the invert button.

https://hometheaterhifi.com/wp-content/ ... ontrol.jpg

CJ could add a stage that would make the preamp non inverting but they think that it is better to tell you to flip the speaker wires. They’re probably right. But no one gets up for the next record to flip their speaker wires to account for an inverted microphone in the recording. Well … the guys who take notes on optimal VTA adjustment from record to record might, but they’ve probably got AR gear.

[AnotherJohnson]

Just be sure to hook BOTH speakers up the same way. If one is inverted and the other is not, the bass will be greatly diminished and the midrange will be thin.

There is an old trick for breaking in speakers by taking advantage of this. Put the new speakers face to face, maybe an inch apart. Wire one up + to +, - to - . Wire the other one + to -, - to +.

Put on a CD to repeat, crank up the volume, and walk away to go about your business.

When one driver is moving forward, the equivalent driver on the other will be moving backward. And virtually no sound will be produced. Try it and see for yourself. You can give the drivers a serious breakin flexing without having to listen to it.

[Rubicon15]

Thank you for the detailed advice. I will definitely invert my speaker wires when my ET3SE arrives this week. With my current setup, I’m running everything through a Bryston DAC then in and out of the ET3SE. So the last main output is inverted to the MV60SE which is phase correct. At this time I’m also planning on running my DV-2b through the DAC using a SPDIF digital cable. Any thoughts regarding running the DV-2b CD player through the ET3SE?

[AnotherJohnson]

From another thread here:

Just for completeness, here's the response I received from CJ...

DV2b was very popular, it's not on the website, because well frankly we lost all the promo materials for it.
it had a TDA1305 DAC.
I can not recommend anything about it at this point because it is unrepairable by us.
Many parts are no longer available and haven't been for many years in most cases.

They did get good reviews back when they were introduced.

FWIW, anything that’s got a normal unbalanced line level output will be readily controllable by the ET3SE.

[roberto]

On the other hand, digital sound has come forward with giant steps. Audirvana Plus and Signalyst HQPLAYER , a virtual cd players bring new levels in digital reproduction.

The new circuit digital engines por DSD (Delta Sigma) and R2R (PCM) are very precise with resolution and virtual stage stage.

Happy listening!

[Rubicon15]

I received the ET3SE Friday. It is definitely in mint condition. I installed a new Gold Lion 6922 tube. CJ recommended the GL as an upgrade. I remove my Bryson BP6 and hooked up the ET3SE. All I can say is WOW… What a difference! Even with the new tube, the ET3SE delivers that classic CJ laid back/tube sound that is clearly sonically superior compared to the Bryston.

I am streaming music using a Bryston BDP. I’m also still using a Bryston BDA -2 DAC. Now I’m thinking about upgrading my DAC in the future. Any thoughts regarding DACs that pair well with CJ? Bryston’s BDA 3.14 DAC is class A and incorporates a streamer.

[AnotherJohnson]

Great to hear that the ET3SE is as hoped!