PV12 repair

[Pat Rivet]

Hi All,
First of all, let me send you regards from France.
As the title of my post suggests, I own a PV12 pre amp... and it doesn't work well right now. Many gremlins, like whiff and spitting. it's a second hand one, bought in the early 90s... Maybe time to renew it...
My questions:
Do I need to change all, as there so many in the beast?
Does a official kit (capacitors and resistors) exist? Or anyone on this forum has any advice to give to me?
Many Thanks in advance for your feedback, regards, Patrick

[AnotherJohnson]

CJ, or the French importer, will probably quote you a price to recap it and replace the tubes. They won’t sell you the parts if current policies are consistently applied.

Yes, it is time to refresh it. The tubes are easy, so you might want to just do that and see how it sounds.

FWIW, it is not state of the art. If it were mine, I would not put a bunch of money in it.

[Pat Rivet]

Hi and many Thanks for your prompt reply. Tubes are already done, shame that CJ does not sell the parts...Maybe could they send me a sort of a list of the capa references..
Regards, Patrick

[AnotherJohnson]

Admin runs a PV12.

He could direct you to the schematic.

He also likes DIY projects, so he may be able to recommend a source for decent Teflon or polypropylene caps.

[admin]

As AJ correctly commented, I run a PV12. It's a great unit but I would not put in a ton of money and resources for upgrades as we are then in the price range of newer (potentially better) equivalents on the used market. We do have the schematics in our database so you can take a look at components fo replacement, but again. This would be a pretty time consuming project. If you don't do the work yourself, it will also become very expensive quite rapidly.

I don't think CJ has any official upgrade kit for the unit, and they don't sell individual components. They may offer to take it in for refurbishment at best. And again, that will be very expensive (especially if shipped overseas and back),... probably more than what the unit is worth on the used market.

[roberto]

Hola Patrick,

Perhaps what you have is only a bad tube. They make odd noises when are bad. Also, the volume knob could make noise while going up or down.

If you could explain more your problems in the unit, could be a minor thing.

Happy listening!

[AnotherJohnson]

Hi and many Thanks for your prompt reply. Tubes are already done, shame that CJ does not sell the parts...Maybe could they send me a sort of a list of the capa references..
Regards, Patrick

As you can see, he says he’s already dealt with the tubes.

[roberto]

Many times you swap the bad one and put it back. Just wanted to be sure. 99% of noises are related to the tubes and the other are resistors.

[AnotherJohnson]

Yes, I agree.

[AnotherJohnson]

I think the only reason to restore one of these is to curate it for nostalgia and for the look and feel of a late 20th Century system. Sort of like curating a McIntosh C-22 to enjoy a mid 20th Century system.

In that context it might make sense to put $2k to $3k in.
Eventually some rich guy in the Far East might be willing to pay your heirs $5k for the restored unit.

[Pat Rivet]

Many thanks for your time and remarks and very happy to have many guys of you involved.
As you can imagine, it's not so easy to explain what happened on the PV12 when you don't write in your own language: random whiff/souffle in the right side, some sizzle too. Is that correct? I wrote that the tubes have been changed but it was 2 years ago with NOS (GE 5751, RTC (12 AU7) and Philips for the AX7, Brimar possibility for the 12AU7), so maybe could I check them again...
I agree to say that is not a good option to spend to much money on it as some repairs have been made on it... without success regarding my posts. No question for shipping it in US. I know some guys able to do the job and I would avoid any mistake concerning the capacitors brand.
To be more precise, I own a old MV 45 too, associate to the PV12. Admin, what do you mean by "newer (potentially better) equivalents on the used market"? Any référence ou advice? In the more recent Conrad Johnson range? And what about a Mosfet or transistor one?
Once again, my best regards ! Pat

[AnotherJohnson]

If it was 2 years ago and NOS tubes, do them again.

Get good new ones.

Regarding the solid state CJ amps, I love the MF2550SE. I am also a fan of its little brother, the MF2275.

[roberto]

Hola Pat,

The noise is coming from there phono section? If you move the input selector to aux, do you have the odd noises there?

What I am trying to do is to find the culprit. You can have a new tubes, and the next day of changing them, you might hear again odd noises.

You never know when a tube is going to fail...chance for this to happens is very rare, unusual.

Happy listening!

[Pat Rivet]

Roberto,
The phono section works well, test made. So, no odd noise...
Another Johnson,
Thanks for amp suggestions... any for a solid state pre amp? Even one or the other are not easy to find in France/Europe.
best, Pat

[AnotherJohnson]

Thanks for amp suggestions... any for a solid state pre amp?

My preference is for conradjohnson or Audio Research from the last decade or two.

Of the solid state preamps I’ve personally owned, Krell, and Mark Levinson have sounded the most transparent to me. But in direct comparison, there is a palpable presence that accompanies CJ and AR. And between CJ and AR, my preference is for the more live sense I get with CJ.

[roberto]

Roberto,
The phono section works well, test made. So, no odd noise...
Another Johnson,
Thanks for amp suggestions... any for a solid state pre amp? Even one or the other are not easy to find in France/Europe.
best, Pat

Hola Pat,

The phono section is prior the line stage. If you don't have any issues there, also is at the line stage section. But I you could have a noise while playing LPs, and no issues with CDs. Or both, if the problem is at the line stage. If the problem is generated at the phono stage, the line stage should be free of noise.

Being you located at France, I love Jadis gear. Have you listen this well made and crafted audio brand? I had some Jadis gear in the lates of 90s...a wonderful sound too.

Happy listening!

[Pat Rivet]

Another Johnson:
Seems that AR is more popular in France and so easier to find on the second hand market. Thera re actually some SP 9 or SP14 for sale for 1 k€ (1160$)... Mark Levinson is quite more expensive, minimum 1,5 k€ depending the model. On another hand, it's quite impossible to find any solid state CJ pre amp for sale in France, what is a shale because I like this brand , having owned, many years ago, a Sonographe SC1-SC120 combo which I regret.
Roberto: I never lesson to Jadis... I will try ...

Happy listening to you and to all the people who take some of their time to offer some help and suggestions.
regards from France, Pat

[admin]

I agree to say that is not a good option to spend to much money on it as some repairs have been made on it... without success regarding my posts. No question for shipping it in US. I know some guys able to do the job and I would avoid any mistake concerning the capacitors brand.
To be more precise, I own a old MV 45 too, associate to the PV12. Admin, what do you mean by "newer (potentially better) equivalents on the used market"? Any référence ou advice? In the more recent Conrad Johnson range? And what about a Mosfet or transistor one?
Once again, my best regards ! Pat

My point was that if you wanted to do a full refurb on the unit that it would cost a few thousand dollars. You are talking about a unit that is now 30 years old. Although I agree that the PV12 sounds great (when in working order), technology has progressed and circuit designs coming out of CJ today simply sound better. Every new generation of CJ gear improves upon on the old. There have been many preamps released by CJ in the past 30 years since the debut of the PV12. All things being equal, the newer you go, the better the sound as well as the reliability.

I am looking to upgrade from my PV12 and been looking on the markets for a used ET-7 for a reasonable price. This is a little above the price range that it would cost to do a full refurb on the PV-12 but not by much if you had to include shipping back and forth between the US (which I don't blame you for not wanting to do).

Take a look at the link below to see what kind of preamps are currently being sold on the market and at what price points. Lots of options.

https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=conrad+johnson

[Big Dog RJ]

G'day Pat, welcome to CJO.

Oh! I didn't notice you're in France... must have missed the intro.
Yes, as Robbo mentioned Jadis, made in your very own backyard... it's a beautiful sound. Apart from CJ, there are only a handful that I would use in a second system if it were a choice: Lamm Audio and Kondo Audio Note. These are pretty expensive but CJ manages to compete right up there regardless of price.

Many years ago, when I used to sell Maggie's, one potential customer who eventually bought the last pair of MG 3.5/r from us had these unusual monoblocks which we've never seen nor heard of. The brand was Kora amplifiers from France. They were around 125w of power, something else really to experience especially driving Maggie's. Later on this same customer sold off the Kora's and said we must come to his place for a visit, since he's just purchased another French brand called Jadis... what?

Anyway, so we went... he was using a PV12, CJ DV2B CD player and CJ phono-preamp with these pretty stunning French monoblocks. From the moment the first note played, we were all in awe... it was really top notch!

Similar to CJ, the Jadis has an enveloping affect, the music sort of wraps around you and fully immerses you in the presentation. The best part is when both are partnered together in whatever form, either pre-power or power-pre, it's just marvellous!

Not sure whether this is the correct forum to be promoting Jadis but it's really that good, and very well designed. They've been around for decades and still going strong. Their top of the line gear is equally impressive but that's where CJ takes over, that extra edge of refinement and more natural tones is what CJ is all about. It gets you closer to the recording or should I say the actual event.

In any case, which ever gear you're bound to end up with, CJ and Jadis is one superb combination! I highly recommend it.
See how you go, and let us know what you choose.
Cheers, RJ

[Pat Rivet]

Hello Big Dog RJ,

Nice to see that you know some French products... with whom I have no experience at all... But, promise, I'll try soon to lesson to some Jadis gears. especially now you noticed a similarity with CJ...
A "detail" I didn't give in my first post, at the end of the CJ comb, is a pair of Tannoy SRM 12X (a little bit to much treble), sources are Thorens TD125 + SME 3009 + Shure V15 III, a former french brand named Micromega for the CD and a Revox A77.
Thanks to admin for the link with Hifishark, I know it but as you can see, there are not so much CJs in France actually. And I don't speak about Sonographe or Profil, so impossible to find... Who knows the Profil gears??
After all your experience, advice and suggestion, I think I should decide to buy another pre amp and maybe a solid state one... I let you know soon.
Best, Pat