Recapped PV14L or Classic 2 SE?

[greg77543]

Hi. Between a re-capped PV14L and a Classic 2 SE, which would provide better sound quality for line level sources only (DAC in my case)?

[admin]

I think this is going to be a tough one to answer. Both are great units. The PV14 is obviously older than the classic but if you had it re-capped, it should be good for many years. The classic was more of a "budget" product but the SE edition really puts it up notch. There is more "technology" in the PV14 and I do believe it comes with a remote which is certainly a nice bonus.

At the end of the day, both are going to be great units and you really can't go wrong. Maybe it really comes down to what feature set is more important to you.

[Big Dog RJ]

Very true as Admin has stated, all depends on your listening habits and what features you're after.

Just to add a few cts worth;
1. The PV14L is a good quality Linestage, however the PV15 surpasses that level. So upgrading the pv14 may not really benefit by a significant margin but will deliver a better performance overall. The cost is something only you can justify.

2. The pv14 has everything you require from your seat, full remote function including power on and off. No need to touch anything on the front panel. That's about it!

3. The Classic 2SE: now this is taking things to another level. It has superb dimensionality, no bells and whistles, very plain and simple, well designed and rock solid. It delivers all the finesse you would ever require from a CJ preamp. The Classic series of CJ's line up, offers superb vfm, basically there's nothing out there that comes close to their performance within the same price range. I've used their entire Classic line up, and it really doesn't get any better than that unless you're willing to spend three times more.

So, to answer your specific question on performance/ sound quality, it's the Classic 2SE without a doubt! OTOH, if it's features and functionality along with convenience from your listening position then it's the pv14.

If you wanted both high quality performance/sound plus convenience, either the pv15 or any of CJ's new ET series preamps, starting with the ET3/se, ET6 and so on will deliver a significant improvement in your system as front end gear.

Hope it goes well and do let us know what you eventually decide on. Cheers,
Enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

Classic 2SE.

This advice also extends to those running old PV12s. You know who you are .

Seriously, as long as you’re running a 30 year old preamp, YOU DO NOT KNOW what top notch modern sources and amps can really do.

[Big Dog RJ]

Excellent point AJ!

I was actually thinking about a nice retirement combo in time to come... not that I want to retire just yet.
So I ran a few things and figures in my head, came up with a few combinations, actually just two to be precise;

1. The wonderful CAV45- with the right load and speaker matching, this is probably all I would ever require in heaven. That's if upstairs wants me...

2. If I were to remain with CLX's, then perhaps a SS CJ-MF series and a nice and simple ET6 or ET7. That's about it really.

The knees are starting to play up again, although I've lost another 4kgs... trying to ease off the weight much as possible and keep fit at the workplace. I guess it's all that physical activity and being on our feet for 10hrs keeps us going. This last Tues I worked 16hrs at a stretch, started at 2:15pm and clocked off at 6:15am. Reached home, couldn't hardly walk to the door... and so a simple system with a CAV45 would have been very relaxing .

Sorry to digress, just saying.
BTW, finally got that chance to hear the ET6, not bad at all! Bit difficult to judge the improvements over the ET3 series but definitely something improved upon. I would say those subtle variations and nuances in soundstage and tonality. Perhaps just a slight edge better I'm thinking.

I wonder what Greg would ultimately decide on... quality sound vs features and functionality... damn I sound like a salesman, better shut up.

Cheers maties, off to snooze
RJ

[admin]

This advice also extends to those running old PV12s. You know who you are .

[AnotherJohnson]

1. The wonderful CAV45- with the right load and speaker matching, this is probably all I would ever require in heaven. That's if upstairs wants me...

2. If I were to remain with CLX's, then perhaps a SS CJ-MF series and a nice and simple ET6 or ET7. That's about it really.

The knees are starting to play up again, although I've lost another 4kgs... trying to ease off the weight much as possible and keep fit at the workplace.

Just a couple of thoughts to share.

First, congratulations on dropping 4 kg. That is actually enough for your knees to notice. 10 kg even more so.

But every bit helps. I’ve been nursing bone on bone for 3+ years. I can feel it if I go up or down 8 kg. I am a candidate for total knee replacement, but so far I’ve managed to avoid it.

Second, a problem for those with mobility issues is that CAV45’s lack of remote. This is also an issue with vinyl which requires jack in the box behavior every time the music is up.

Get something with a remote for retirement. I recommended the ET7.

[AnotherJohnson]

And one more thought. The best retirement system is the one you’ve got. Much nicer than having to move big amps or speakers out for sale.

This was a factor in my decision to go with the Revel F228Be instead of heavy stat panels.

It is also a factor in why I do not have ART 300s on my bucket list.

And it is a factor in why I have first floor systems. I can move heavy stuff if I want to using an appliance moving cart. Even with an appliance moving cart, I want to stay under 40 kg per piece.

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes AJ, a remote function would certainly be a nice retirement feature. However, I see it this way, if you can't get up and adjust levels or change LP's then might as well just wither away... also, it's good exercise to be moving at least that little bit extra.

When we built our new house, every other home had automatic garage doors except ours! People asked why I didn't opt for auto doors. Simply put, if you can't lift / close your own garage door then you shouldn't be living in a house, better off in a retirement home where people do things for you.

Weight wise: when I started out at my present workplace, I was actually 118kg. After a few years of hard labour, I dropped to 96kg just last year. Then Covid hit and I ate far too many chocolate chip cookies in our tea room... so the scales went up to 110. With a few extra dumbell presses and some effective workouts, I managed to bring it down to 104kg. My aim is to get back to double digits, perhaps 98kg or so... then it would most probably platue. Just under 100kg for a 6ft 3" frame is what my doc & physio advised. Otherwise I'll look like a pencil.

As for the CAV45, my plan was to have it close as possible to the listening position, perhaps located on a side. That way, adjustments are an arms length.

Any news from Greg (OP) btw? Was just wondering on which route he decided on.

Cheers, RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

Yes AJ, a remote function would certainly be a nice retirement feature. However, I see it this way, if you can't get up and adjust levels or change LP's then might as well just wither away... also, it's good exercise to be moving at least that little bit extra.

When we built our new house, every other home had automatic garage doors except ours! People asked why I didn't opt for auto doors. Simply put, if you can't lift / close your own garage door then you shouldn't be living in a house, better off in a retirement home where people do things for you.

It will be interesting to see if you still hold this view if/when arthritis gets a stronger hold on your knees and shoulders, God forbid. It is something you can’t really understand until you experience it.

The idea that an infirmity makes the unfortunate person worthy of being confined to a space they don’t control is surely not your heart searched view. You may have to eat your own words down the road… (“then they should die and decrease the surplus population” comes to mind.)

No need to borrow misfortune.

Or maybe YMMV.

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes agreed AJ. Without a doubt.
Non hi-fi related, I've got osteo in both knees, mostly due to heavy impact sports... those 6 years of playing rugby at a high level, both club and Int'l, 6 years is all I lasted, probably too much sugar too.

I see my physio on a regular basis and I only do certain things accordingly, so no more 180kg squats, 120kg presses nor leg extensions, none of that allowed due to joints grinding. And those clicks and clacks in the mornings, in pain all day pretty much when that happens.

I'm trying my best to manage the pain plus loose as much weight as possible, only time will tell. Both physio and doc said to keep moving though, that's pretty much the best remedy before all else eventually gives way.

When that happens, I'll most probably call it quits and plug in some headphones. At least some fine tunes will still be enjoyed through a decent headphone amp. CJ has one! Damn expensive though. There's one available with our Aus importer at the moment. Would be a fantastic opportunity to experience what it can deliver.

Topic for another day. Don't want to hijack the thread too much.
Cheers, RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

I don’t know your age. But I had a HUGE attitude adjustment between 60 (when everything worked well with minor aggravation) and 70 (when aggravation is not ignorable). Osteo Arthritis drives a lot of decisions, especially since I’ve learned to “think ahead.”

Taking it back to the thread’s original purpose, from a convenience standpoint admin’s original comments are good.

From a sonic standpoint, I like the current lineup and consider the ET7s2 to be the real sweet spot, though the s1 is worth a listen too. You get solidly neutral preamp behavior with some convenience.

I think the AR and McIntosh offerings offer more convenience, but to me they aren’t sonically competitive with the Latest CJ gear.

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes, that's a definite AJ.

Infact, ARC and Mac are now owned by large investment companies. Their interest is not music nor customers, it's rather moving boxes...

Only the much smaller brands, such as CJ, Lamm, Aries Ceret as an example, are truly passionate about high quality music and providing high-quality sound systems to people's homes. Those who are seriously seeking good quality sound will continue to find these brands, and those manufacturers will continue to pursue their designs.

It's a great thing when both mindsets meet.

Cheers, and enjoy those very fine tunes!
Big woof, RJ

[roberto]

Hola Chicos,

Well, here is another point that we have to take on consideration too. Conrad Johnson is single ended. No balanced connections. Why is this? We know that balanced connection is on most hi-end brands and their propaganda is claiming that balanced is the way to go. The +6dB and the convenience that you can take it while the units are on and you can take it off without making any transient to the speakers is something that you can do. But, we are taking about hi end sound quality, and single ended is the way to go. These are not my words, they are from Mr. Sanders engineer who is the responsable to built Sanders Sound Systems ( http://sanderssoundsystems.com ). When you open the web page at the left, there is a Reference Menu. Open Technical White Papers and then open Balanced vs Unbalanced Operation White Paper...here is an explanation of both and he says that he can not hear the difference between them but he preferred the non balanced, he is with single ended. What caught me my attention is the two last paragraphs:

So in summary, from a practical standpoint, it really doesn't matter whether you use balanced or unbalanced operation in most home audio systems. Both will sound identical to human hearing even though balanced operation has slightly more distortion and noise.

Personally, I prefer the simplicity and purity of unbalanced operation even though I will freely admit that I cannot hear any difference between the two. I only use balanced operation when I need to eliminate external noise, such as when doing live recording.

Conrad Johnson did not bite the bate about the balanced...and here is another reason why we have the purest signal and superb quality!

Happy listening!

[admin]

Agree. Not much benefit in having balanced connectors and it just adds more complexity to the design. I rather resources (and subsequent costs) be put into the main components and not excess connectors. I think this is especially true for analog equipment.