Premier 140 and MV60- Respect?

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes, the Premier 140 is an outstanding power amplifier.
It remains faithful to that hallmark of CJ's Premier standard line, and can drive speakers effortlessly. It can handle difficult loads and notorious impedence curves, and yet deliver a very smooth presentation across the full freq spec with a remarkable soundstage.

It's a bit odd looking, such that the trannys are all onto one side of the chassis rather than located on the back end. Nonetheless, when the tube cage is placed, then everything looks quite normal but when the cover comes off, it looks extraordinary.

When matched with any of CJ's Premier series preamps (prem 16LS, Prem 17LS, Prem18, ACT2) this was one of their top line in terns of SOTA, and being a stereo version was their most powerful tube amp at the time.

You could say the ART150 is probably the successor to the prem140. Although in terns of tube topology been developed around the KT150 and 6922's, in terms of power handling, both are mighty fine! Rock solid in power supplies with plenty of current and a healthy dose of Class A bias before switching into Class AB.

It's a beautiful amplifier, one of CJ's finest.
Cheers mate, RJ

[Wildcat]

You're not making it easy to say "no" here.

[Joe Appierto]

Weeellll.

Have to agree once again with RJ especially about the pairing of the 140 with the 17LS and 16LS2 all three of which were part of my system at one point. Also, the aesthetics of the 140 are unique in my experience and did take some getting used to. The amp was also rather heavy.

When I had it the amp was ahead of Quad 989 speakers and it could at times load the room with bass (in a very good way) and the sound stage was almost walkaround precise.

[Wildcat]

I'm not too worried about looks, as it will sit on the large bottom shelf of an equipment rack. With the cage off, of course. The rack is such that the easiest way to load up an amp is to remove each level of the shelf (each layer rests on "points" on the pillars). Besides that, it's a good excuse to clean and dust everything.

My current speakers have plenty of bass at full volume, and if I'm listening at lower levels, the woofer level adjustments are such that I can kick them up a few notches and still get full bass where normally it would be weak. It's nice to have that independent of the amplifier.

I still use the PV14L--I'll probably have that for a while, although in some future year I may look into a later Premier preamp. I want to decide on what to do with the DAC first--it's also going in to get looked at, and with a newer version due late this year, I may decide to upgrade it.

[4thtimeaudiophile]

In my limited exposure to CJ, I am unable to disrespect anything that CJ makes. My first CJ amp is an MV45. I bought it from my friend Bill for $200. I had to replace the power switch, a power supply electrolytic cap and the RCA input jacks. Bill had lived close to the CJ factory in Virginia. He had them do the upgrades on it. I would still be using it but....my friend Andy knew someone who was selling an MV60 at a great price. It needed new EL34's, otherwise it was in pristine condition. So, I bought a matched quad, cryogenically treated set of EL34's from Upscale Audio. After some time, I rewired the output taps from 4 ohms to 8 ohms. The MV45 is the backup amp for my main system, but I would never part with it. From my own anecdotal evidence, I must agree that there is so much more than just the power amp. There is a symbiotic relationship to everything in the chain. I can notice the differences between the MV45 and the MV60. That tells me that my system is good enough to be able to discern those differences. My "audio room" is 8 ft by 12 ft. Even my DIY 6L6 SE amp can do the job there, but just barely. Both of the previous owners have "sellers' regrets" for parting with their CJ amps. Both have moved on to greener pastures. Their loss is my gain. Bill said that even his wife (sorry, ladies) liked the sound of the MV45. The previous owner of the MV60 upgraded to something that he heard at the AXPONA show in Chicago. While not dirt poor, I am limited a bit by own personal situation. Last weekend, I was at Bill's house listening to his main audio system, which consisted of a Magnum Dynalab tuner, Pass Labs XP-22 preamp, Oppo disc player, BAT SS power amp and Harbeth 40 series speakers. Several times, Bill admitted that the BAT amp had to go. It did sound sterile to me also. Yesterday, I told my wife that I preferred the sound of my MV60 "main system" to Bill's pricey (referenced to my budget) system. In closing, I must say that I really appreciate the honesty of those who have posted on this thread. Some of these (non-CJ) audio manufacturers just make me chuckle with their pretzel logic. The folks here on this forum seem to have a good understanding of the notion, that even in the audio realm, life is full of trade-offs.

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes, agreed 110%!

I sincerely believe the MV60, and similarly the Premier 140, were one of those extraordinary things that CJ produced.

The MV60SE took upon the special Transpectral trannys that were only used in CJ's Premier standard gear. It replaced the MV55, the Premier 11A and further refined in the SE version. I also had the SE version fitted with KT120's, and this was my point of reference in using KT120's onwards.

Fitted with KT120's, not only sounded fuller but also provided MV60SE an enhanced level of performance, which at times delivered way more than its intended power rating. That single stereo amplifier drove many difficult types of speakers, from Infinity's to Maggie's and onto Quads. It handled them all so effortlessly! It was a marvellous combination, an absolute pleasure to have. (Note: during my ownership of the MV60SE, I was using the ACT2 preamp. This would have contributed to that overall enhanced performance, without a doubt.)

Enjoy it to the fullest, you've got one of those special ones...
Cheers, and do enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ

[JoshT289]

The KT120 talk interests me. I recently had the C1 Teflon cap upgrade done to my Premier 11A and I asked Jeff about running KT120s in it. He deflected the question and said that he recommends the Tung Sol 6550 as new issue replacement tubes, which is what they sell for the 11A. But when I told him I had just purchased some very low hour SED winged C 6550 tubes from a guy I trust, he was very enthusiastic about them and said I should use them instead of buying the Tung Sol replacements from him. So Jeff clearly still favors use of the winged C 6550s over any other tube in the 11A.

Now, that doesn't mean he thinks the KT120s are a bad choice or not compatible. He similarly deflected my question about using Genelex Gold Lion KT88s reissues. He just sort of avoided answering the questions on both by recommending 6550s when I asked about KT120s and KT88s.

[Wildcat]

I'm quite happy with the Premier 11 running KT120s. It's such a nice, well-balanced tube with some decent heft to the bass that I enjoyed the sound more so than the tired GE 6550s that it came with. My only issue is the tube cage will not fit on anymore, at least not without some sort of spacers installed to keep them away from the tubes. There are so many equivalents to the 6550 that it's fun to roll the tubes if you are into that sort of thing!

[bluemeanies]

I have the CJ PREMIER140 with Genelex Gold Lion 120’s…Respect? Don’t worry about other opinions if you are enjoying what you are hearing…listening too.
That’s part of the magic..what YOU hear.
This hobby changes daily…you can never catch up.
ENJOY…that’s my advice.

[Big Dog RJ]

Genalex Gold Lion 120???

Didn't know GGL's made KT120's... when was this?

As far as I'm aware, Tung Sol are the main brand, and the KT120 reissue by TungSol.

Anyway, perhaps I missed it... how are these GGL's KT120's sounding? Are they comparable to TungSol? If so what are your findings?

RJ

[Wildcat]

Far as I can tell from a search, Tung-Sol is the only KT120 producer, although Tung-Sol, ElectroHarmonix, Genalex, Mullard, Sovtek, etc. are all brands of New Sensor. They list current tubes here:

https://www.ehx.com/tubes/

(Click the Specifications tab halfway down the page for listings of their tubes, by manufacturer.)

[Joe Appierto]

Maybe Genalex KT88?

[Wildcat]

That's what I was thinking. It's a compatible tube, so, no harm in trying it.

[roberto]

Hola chicos,

I did a little Goggle search and found this Shunguan KT-120. Stereotimes says this:The Shuguang Treasure KT-120 tube, the subject of this review, has some distinguishing features that include the internal carbon polymer compound coating, gold plated pins, Super Alloy, and Teflon insulator connector housing. One should note the Shuguang Treasure KT-120 tube is definitely taller than any KT-88 tube may not fit within the confines of one’s tube gage. The KT-120 tube is also rated at a higher plate dissipation of 60 watts (42 watts is typical for a KT-88) which may not be compatible with your existing amplifier. This review will compare the performance of the Shuguang Treasure KT-120 against the Ayon Audio KT-88SX (as fabricated by Shuguang to Ayon Audio’s specifications). Also, please note that a matched octet of KT-120 tubes was evaluated in this review...

I am very happy with the sound quality of the Tung Sol KT-120. It has fuller bass and a very transparent highs, The midrange is warm and has a very wide stage. CJ uses it and my Classic 120SE is supplied with it.

Happy listening!

[admin]

Hola chicos,

I did a little Goggle search and found this Shunguan KT-120. Stereotimes says this:The Shuguang Treasure KT-120 tube, the subject of this review, has some distinguishing features that include the internal carbon polymer compound coating, gold plated pins, Super Alloy, and Teflon insulator connector housing. One should note the Shuguang Treasure KT-120 tube is definitely taller than any KT-88 tube may not fit within the confines of one’s tube gage. The KT-120 tube is also rated at a higher plate dissipation of 60 watts (42 watts is typical for a KT-88) which may not be compatible with your existing amplifier. This review will compare the performance of the Shuguang Treasure KT-120 against the Ayon Audio KT-88SX (as fabricated by Shuguang to Ayon Audio’s specifications). Also, please note that a matched octet of KT-120 tubes was evaluated in this review...

I am very happy with the sound quality of the Tung Sol KT-120. It has fuller bass and a very transparent highs, The midrange is warm and has a very wide stage. CJ uses it and my Classic 120SE is supplied with it.

Happy listening!

Do you have a link to the Shunguan KT-120 review? It's not the KT-88's that I am interested in but rather the comparison to Tung Sol KT-120's. This is of interest as my ART amps use 16 KT-120's and I am only familiar with the Tung Sol brand. Retubing this gear is pretty expensive and it's good to know what the options are.

[Joe Appierto]

http://v2.stereotimes.com/post/shuguang ... acuum-tube

[admin]

Thanks for the link. He seems to give a very positive review. Maybe this is another area where China has improved quality?

[Joe Appierto]

You're welcome. I haven't read the article yet. They used to refer to Chinese tubes as fire bottles but even 10 years ago when I still had tubed equipment, I never had any issues with the tubes from the Shuguang plant -- in those days they were sold under the Valve Art and Penta Labs labels. They were reliable and sounded decent. Their Treasure line is newer but I don't have any experience with them. Another brand that's supposed to be okay is Psvane but I think they only make small signal type tubes.