Preamp Gain on Premier 16

[Timo62]

Hello,

Any members here who have owned both the CJ premier 14 and 16 preamps and noticed a significant difference in the gain? Both preamps are listed as 25db gain, but I have noticed that the Premier 16 has a lot more gain. Maybe this is from the different type of tubes used between the two preamps? I was just curious if this has been anyone else's experience.

[AnotherJohnson]

The owners manual says that the 16 has 26 dB of gain and a maximum output of 15 VRMS. Similarly for the 14, the owners manual says 25 dB of gain and maximum output of 20 VRMS.

The circuits are definitely different, and use different tube compliments. The 14 might be considered as a transition piece, bridging modern ideas and older ones. The 16 looks like a means of introducing more people to the more modern (for that era 25 years ago) newly introduced ART.

Something that happens with older units, especially units that have lived with folks who like to experiment with tubes is that the tubes may not be matched. It is even possible that the wrong tubes could be installed in one, the other, or both.

25 dB vs 26 dB should not be a very noticeable difference, but those specs are for stock tubes in spec. You may have something different.

[AnotherJohnson]

A bit more ...

The 14 uses 6Gk5 tubes, and these have a reputation for being highly variable if you don’t have a matched set. Some reports from respected users and NOS inventory holders suggest that maybe 50% have issues with microphonics or linearity.

Kevin Deal (no connection to me) is generally a trustworthy supplier who tests his stock before selling it.

https://upscaleaudio.com/products/mullard-6gk5

The 16 uses 6922s and they are in current production. The 6922 is used in many current CJ products, and my experience with them, purchased from both CJ and Kevin, has been very good. I do not fool with NOS or tube rolling.

YMMV

[Timo62]

Another Johnson,
Thanks for your reply.

I usually buy my NOS tubes from Brent Jessie. He is a very good and reliable source for NOS tubes. I have used upscale audio also. I buy my 6GK5 tubes strait from Conrad Johnson. They offer the Sylvania 6GK5 tubes and they sound really good in my Premier 14 and Premier 15. They also have been very reliable with no issues at all. I have a new set of 4 tubes in my 14 now with about 300 hundred hours on them. Conrad Johnson uses the Electro Harmonix 6922 tubes and this is the tube brand that is supplied with all new units , or if you order replacement 6922 tubes from CJ.

I assume the gain being higher on my Premier 16 compared the my 14 is just the nature of the beast. I was just curious if this was other folks experience also.

[AnotherJohnson]

I assume the gain being higher on my Premier 16 compared the my 14 is just the nature of the beast. I was just curious if this was other folks experience also.

Maybe this is just a case of semantics.

Very few people can actually hear the difference between 25 dB of gain and 26 dB.

I wonder if you are thinking of gain in terms of perceived volume for a given volume setting.

There is no particular reason why one would expect the 14 and 16 to track volume in lockstep with each other, even if their nominal gain were the same.

You’ve got me interested in the 16 now. It really does look to me like the gateway to 21st Century CJ values.

The 14 is very nice too, of course. But the ART seems to me to have been a watershed shifting moment. And the 16 really looks like an attempt to bring ART technology to a wider audience.

[Timo62]

I am relating the gain in terms of perceived volume settings between the two preamps. It depends on what the musical source is being played also. The Premier 16 is a lot louder at low volume settings compared to the 14.

I feel the Premier 16 was definitely a transitional preamp for Conrad Johnson. The mid to late 90s is when the CJ house sound started to change from the classic sound into more of the modern CJ sound. The Premier 16 has blend of both the modern and classic CJ sound. It has a mostly modern sound while still retaining some of the old CJ classic glow. It is a good balance of the two CJ eras.

[roberto]

When doing comparisons, it is important to understand that the gain or the input sensitivity of any device is not that important. If you want to know the difference, play about the same level your program material musical test. If you have to increase the volume knob to have about the same volume level, it is OK. The difference in level, tells you that one might be more efficient than the other, but not necessary better.

Specs are just a guide. One could have more sensitivity. This could be because of the tubes might be different or a totally different circuit design. Listen for a while one unit, then with the same program material, listen the other about the same volume level (SPL) increasing or not the volume knob.

Specs are meaning less. Quality sound will be always detected by your final judges: your ears. Trust what they are telling you. Choose the one that you liked most.

Happy listening!

[AnotherJohnson]

For me, I choose to set volume to give pleasing low levels, and then I judge based on the overall reproduction of the whole program.

I think this is why I gravitate toward the 250+ wpc domain.

The LP 275M really does hang in there to realistic loud passage reproduction when low levels are also realistic.

Preamps are important, but the Premier series are always a pleasure. And I love the modern ET series.

[Timo62]

I enjoy the Premier 16 very much. It is definitely on another level of performance compared the Premier 14, which is a very decent preamp on its own.