GAT serie 2 vs. ART series 2

[aldinohiend]

Without taking into account the price, the age of the device and the management of the valves (2 valves in the GAT versus 10 in the ART), what would you choose between a GAT series 2 and an ART series 2? And why?

[AnotherJohnson]

This may be relevant.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/ ... s-the-best

[roberto]

Hola aldinohiend ,

I have a customer who owns both...and they are big sounding Monsters! The quantity of the tubes does not means nothing. The new philosophy of Conrad Johnson is to deliver the best sound possible with the shortest circuit design and signal path. The Gap 2 shines here. I think that I do like it better. The overall sound is more organic, more truthful, with much better harmonic texture content. This does not means that the Art is not a good sounding device. I suggest to you to have a listen to both, and let your ears decide which you like better. Both are fine electronic instruments. Not just a preamp, there are many things involved on both designs. They are built with the best quality parts that our electronic industry can make and offer.

You can't go wrong with any of those fine preamplifiers. They are also Top of the world products.

Happy listening!

[AnotherJohnson]

Interesting take on ART including Lew’s thoughts.

https://www.stereophile.com/tubepreamps/8/index.html

[AnotherJohnson]

And more thoughts on the GAT2.
https://www.hifiplus.com/articles/conra ... amplifier/

[AnotherJohnson]

Without taking into account the price, the age of the device and the management of the valves (2 valves in the GAT versus 10 in the ART), what would you choose between a GAT series 2 and an ART series 2? And why?

I think that after you take these issues out of the equation, you’re left with visual issues, and flavor of sound issues, and historical ambiance issues ... which are all tied together.

I know others disagree, but my take on it is that if you prefer the best sound from the late 20th century, and if you like the visual impact of two chassis, and if you discard the issues you’ve excluded, then you have no incentive to acquire a current model, be it ET7s2 OR GAT2.

Personally, I think the issues you’ve excluded are important.
Caps age out. Tubes are not free. Both units define “state of their era’s art.” Both are visually stunning.

The newer choice will likely have support for a longer period. Since I would consider either to be a bucket list component, I’d prefer the GAT2 but have the expectation that either would be good fun to listen through (not to).

I don’t think either would “get in the way.”

Where’s RJ? He’ll undoubtedly come to the rescue with an informed opinion.

[Big Dog RJ]

Roger that captain!
I was a bit flat out at the work place, Xmas has already kicked off throughout all our stores, people going crazy and not only do they want Xmas trees but they demand the Xmas pudding must be on the shelf!!! Oh boy...

So, here we have the legendary ART preamp and the "newer version" of CJ's top of the line. To compare, well basically that's it! The ART preamp is legendary, period.

The GAT is the "newer version" period.

Both are mighty fine indeed! However, as correctly pointed out by our trusted fellow CJO members, it all boils down to personal preference. Since the OP has a system which comprises of quite a line up of fine CJ gear, the Maggie's 3.7i will reveal all the subtle nuances through either of these preamps.

Just to summarise:
ART series:
Legendary sound, wonderful musicality, superb everything and a beautiful warmth of that golden glow that CJ was known for, with a hint of caramel...
Dual chassis, plenty of maintenance but built like a tank, so lookout! (Owned it for several years partnered with an awesome pair of Prem 8A monoblocks) driving the mighty Apogee Diva's, invluding several Maggie's MG20, MG3.5 & MG3.6. Like I said, superb everything. It had anything and everything you could ever want from a preamp.

GAT series:
Very refined to such an extent, it's as if there's no preamp in the system. Very neutral, will allow more of the music to flow from the original recording. Hardly any golden glow, probably none at all, hence no caramel or any flavours... much easier to maintain, single chassis and just a pair of tubes. It can't get any simpler than this!

The GATS2 which is further refined, completely disappears from the system. I guess this is the "ultimate performance" where there's no pre-amplifier stage... or rather one that you cannot hear. Does not add any color to the sound nor takes away anything, simply does it's job of switching, more than adequate gain and provides that perfect interface as a true linestage.
It is a remarkable achievement, then again so is the ART preamp.

For my personal preferences, I like a bit of color, golden glow and touch of caramel with plenty of nuts or crushed peanuts. Murray River salted caramel (Aussie favourite top of line) or that awesome ice cream I used to have when I was in the States, Praline & cream by B&R, top stuff!
This for me is: The ART, ACT2 and CT5, which I'm currently using, along with a much older pair of monoblocks, the LP125M's.

Again, personal preference and overall sound quality has been developed in line with carefully chosen source components, speakers, and other gear to arrive at a custom made type of sound. It suits mostly what I enjoy listening to, which is about 99.9% jazz. It can't do other types of music too well, and the CLX's require subs for deep organ music and full range orchestral works. If that was the case, I would have acquired the GAT, this is where it excells. However, I don't listen to that type of music. Not that I don't like it, it's not my top preference in musical tastes.

I wouldn't hesitate for even 1 second if I had the chance of acquiring an ART preamp. However, since of lately, I've grown more accustomed to the 6H30PI tubes that are used in both the ACT2 and CT5. That matched with the KT120's driving CLX's is my overall preference, regardless of latest product design or not.

As per the OP; you would have to take our thoughts and suggestions only as guidelines. At the of the day, the final choice is yours, your ears, your listening preferences and what really engages you in the music. Both in terms of enjoyment and emotional freedom that you achieve from your favourite recordings. We simply cannot decide that for you. No one can, not even the best dealer on the planet!

All the best, in whatever one you choose, they are both extremely fine musical instruments.

Cheers and a big woof to the ART, absolute legend!
RJ

[Bill Stevenson]

My two cents: The GAT2! It is noticeably quieter. It is absolutely neutral. The ART is warmer, some people like that, but for me the GAT2 takes the best to the next level.

[AnotherJohnson]

This issue of quiet would seem like a red herring, but it’s not.

Nearly all the older high end gear I’ve ever owned seemed quiet ... until it was directly compared to newer gear of the same quality level. The subtlety of what’s actually quiet is surprisingly real. It does not surprise me that Bill has used this issue as a descriptor. And that the GAT2 gives this better impression seems highly likely.

Nevertheless, without a direct comparison, the older gear may seem to be very quiet.

The best is always the enemy of the good.

That’s why I have not seriously auditioned the GAT2 and ART 300. I suspect that once I’d auditioned them, I’d be on the hook for the upgrade. I’m happy with my present system. No need to go looking for trouble.

[Joe Appierto]

Nevertheless, without a direct comparison, the older gear may seem to be very quiet.

Your point is nicely made.

[Big Dog RJ]

The quietness factor also comes from the three basic setup parameters that many tend to overlook even now:

1. Dedicated AC mains line
2. Source component setup and proper grounding.
3. Room setup and its parameters

Of course apart from just these three points, the main amplifiers must also be setup well with dedicated lines and if using preamps plus monoblocks, it gets more complicated. The dedicated AC lines is an absolute must!
Not only is the quietness factor great but also the overall sound quality and dynamics vastly improves.

I've been to one place recently where these three elements weren't quite followed nor addressing proper setup either. Great system but sound wise not so... its a shame.
During this year, I've visited three different places where the gear is great but the basic elements and room setup have not been developed to form an optimal level of synergy.

Musicians are artists who play with a passion and love for music, trying to express all their emotions. It's an Art form. Putting together a highend system is basically an Art form as well. It takes years to complete and arrive at the right synergy, until then it's a learning curve.

Cheers, and enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

While all that’s true, a one to one swap into the same system still shows off which one takes you to blacker black.

Two decades typically shows in this sort of direct comparison. But no doubt, if the rest of the system/room aren’t up to showing the differences, there’s no incentive to choose one over the other. You might even wonder what the fuss is about. And you can be very happy with the older unit.

I am very happy with the LP275Ms even though I suspect that the ART300s would be even nicer. JF confirms as much.

[Big Dog RJ]

AJ mate,

I think I have addressed this comparison somewhere before, between the LP275M'S and the ART300's under the amplifiers tab.

Basically just to summarise:
1. The ART300's are designed to bring out the best of any recordings in a more purer form. That is, they're far more neutral, probably no colouration at all, very powerful and can hold the soundstage together with a vise like grip at extreme loud levels, yet still sound musical. This is basically what JF has redesigned with these monoblocks and they deliver that sheer performance even capable of competing and surpassing other top tier amplifiers. I'm talking about ultra-high-end here, in excess of 80grand for amplifiers.

2. The LP275M'S are mighty fine! Period.
These are three models up from what I'm currently using- LP125M, LP140, LP260 & LP275M. Although ART300's may seem ever tempting and I've compared them side by side, with nearly identical panel type speakers, I didn't find any major differences in overall "quality" but in terms of "performance", yes. That's mostly to do with room size, and speaker efficiency plus raw power / current required to control reactive type speakers or massive dynamic tower type speakers in much larger rooms.

Merely speaking, my LP125M's are at entry level point but what I've upgraded on them are far from entry level, and that is the one and only reason I will never sell these until my ears fall off! I'm waiting for one more final SE upgrade, which will take place soon. In the meantime it's more than adequate to drive the CLX's in my particular room, they really don't require that much power, and the maintenance cost is a huge factor for me. Particularly at this stage as we get older things get tough... so why bother.

When your system reaches a certain threshold and you've done your utmost to upgrade all areas with existing gear, with minor tweaks and other upgrades, it reaches a very fine level of refinement. Now, when you go and slightly alter that level, for example by adding ART300s, other things will also change... preamps, speakers, source gear, cables etc., and the vicious cycle begins!

Hell, I would love to acquire the ART300s and I've extensively auditioned them driving the same exact CLX's and they were mighty fine! If I would have had large amounts of disposable income perhaps I would close the purchase. However, considering other extremely fine gear that CJ has made previously, the original ART amplifiers that Admin is currently using, the top of the line LP series amplifiers that you're currently using... sincerely speaking mate, I wouldn't change a thing if it was my money.

There's a point where you have to be content with what you have and have managed to put together throughout the years/ decades. Afterall it's about enjoying the music.

Enjoy those fine tunes that you've already achieved!

BTW, I feel the same way about the GAT, it doesn't tickle me at all but again if large amounts of disposable income, maybe... on a second system not this one.

Cheers mate, RJ