Cj pv5 vs pv8 vs pv12

[admin]

It's really nice when you can breath new life into old gear. If you have the resources and talent to work on these units it's a huge advantage. CJ gear tend to lend themselves well for these update applications due to their philosophy of simple designs.

[AnotherJohnson]

bschott wrote:

I have the pv11 and have had to do some restoration work to bring it up to what I consider top notch sounding. First off - recognize that these are older units that may have some breakdown of components. Caps, pots ,switches, etc can all go bad in older gear. Not to mention tubes... Here's what I did and you can take it with a grain of salt...
************


It sounds like you chased it all down, except the balance pot. When the volume pot dies, there will be alternatives. When the start relay fails, there may be options too.

What would you have to charge to do all this with a reasonable profit margin, fair wage, and overhead to recover the cost of being in business? That’s a rhetorical question. The answer is “more than 99% of aficionados would be happy to pay.”

There is joy in keeping the old stuff humming, or even “from humming” … and that’s the pay. It’s a true labor of love.

Keep up the good work!

[bschott]

Thanks,

I forgot. I also changed out the alps volume pot with a stepped attenuator. Sounds pretty good and at least that's one thing I won't have future worry about failing.

[AnotherJohnson]

I expect that it sounds fabulous! A true trip to the spa!

I would LOVE to hear it.

[admin]

Any chance you took pictures of the inside showing the new components?

[bschott]

Any chance you took pictures of the inside showing the new components?

Adding a few last tweaks and I'll post some pics soon for you all.

[Big Dog RJ]

Nice one there with the PV series preamp. A well thought out and carefully selected components. With the acquired skills and steady hand, plus knowledge of course, these older units can be fitted to perform at extraordinary levels. At one point you'd actually question, what they do with newer gear and why they charge such high prices... but they do have their reasons.

A very similar project done with my CT5 preamp and monoblocks, using both types of caps from Mundorf and Dueland, plus CJ's Teflons that were originally in there anyway. Along with a full array of Vishays metal foil resistors, the performance level is tops! Definitely no requirement towards a GAT at this stage, however thus is a totally unique and custom sound.

An outstanding mod done on my LP125M's, Class A bias operation was modded to derive 60w of Class A, rather than 125 Class AB. After around the 80w mark, that's if it's pushed over this limit, then it switches to Class AB. I can't go into further details on how this was exactly done due to respecting the chap who conducted the mods over a period of two years. So I have to abide by his rules and respect that.

One thing I must say is, after these mods were done, the overall performance is extraordinary! CJ's trannys are well capable of operating in Class A mode, and they heat up quite a bit. However, with the right skill set and careful operation, obviously someone who knows this type of work in & out, the investment is well worth it, Simply superb!

So here's a big cheers to mods! Keep those tunes humming and those tubes a glowing!
RJ

[bschott]

Nice one there with the PV series preamp. A well thought out and carefully selected components. With the acquired skills and steady hand, plus knowledge of course, these older units can be fitted to perform at extraordinary levels.

So here's a big cheers to mods! Keep those tunes humming and those tubes a glowing!
RJ

As I said, these PV series preamps are pretty basic in their circuitry. I don't think Cj was doing anything revolutionary with these units. What they did do though was use reasonably high quality components, use good engineering practices in their circuitry and with a layout that invites tinkerers like me to experiment or at the least replace components easily when needed. Having all those film caps in the PSU I think is part of the CJ magic. Nice that they'll probably last near forever unlike electrolytics.

Working on this unit reminded me of when I owned an Austin-Healy. That car was a joy to work on and they expected that you would take matters into your own hands in your garage. Loved working on that car and loved every moment of driving it. Except when we ran through a puddle. Those Brit ignitions are a special thing.... They just don't make 'em like that anymore.

fyi, the parts expense to refurbish the pv11 was not particularly expensive. But I did spend quite a bit of time sourcing them and also replacing them. So I spent considerable time doing the work and also considering what exactly to do. I didn't have a fully thought out plan - just some ideas as to what I wanted to fix that evolved into more once the thing was open for business.

I'm not an EE but I know enough to get me in trouble so there was def a learning curve. For me that was part of the satisfaction. And next time I'm at a cocktail party with a bunch of audiophile electronics nerds I can have stories to tell!!

[Big Dog RJ]

Well said mate! Definitely on the talking shop part with a-phile experts... most of whom I usually bump into at audio events... pretty clueless the majority of them. Although some do like spending pretty big bucks and mostly judge their setups by price only. Very bad addiction and poor judgement.

In reference to CJ's audio circuits, yes! They are referred to as vintage circuits. Nothing new in there and no such breakthroughs either, based on 60's design classic tube circuits, and CJ are probably the only one that have executed these simple circuits extremely well to arrive at outstanding results. No other vacuum tube company does it quite well.

When looking at ARC and VAC tube gear, this is at another level altogether. ARC has some nifty features and in-house gadgets built-in to the amplifiers that allow for user adjustments. VAC is probably a level above, and offers some serious gear. Very pricey but another well designed outfit with utmost exquisite workmanship. It's just a beautiful thing to just look at! Don't worry about listening, for it will deliver!

I was very keen on VAC amplifiers at one point but I thought to myself, this would involve an overhaul in all amp related gear, that's going to cost, so why bother. Just sit back and enjoy those fine tunes!

Cheers mate, keep us posted on your mods. Those Mundorfs are really special, alongside Vishays they're something else! That I do know for sure.
RJ

[CTS59]

It's hard not to bring dollars into this discussion, as value is relative to a number of factors, including cost. The PV-5 today seems to trade right around $1500. I've seen the Premier 3 selling in the $2000-2200 range. I can't help but think that a premier 1 could be had for the under $2K range.

My recollection of the PV-5 vs the Premier 2 was a quite substantial difference. The PV-5 sounded great. The P-2 was an epiphany in comparison.

[AnotherJohnson]

VAC reminds me of Prima Luna. Right down to some including the failing tube indicators, auto bias, and triode -pentode switch.

Their dealer network in the US is worse than CJ’s.

It looks to me like the simple circuit idea is simple to copy and that this is plaguing CJ right now because the counterfeiters in China are so bold as to even steal their name for their counterfeit casework.

Sigh…. Prima Luna and VAC are going with simple circuits and quality parts. Sound familiar?

VAC appears to be bold enough to out CJ CJ prices. The authentic CJ may cost less. And some models include the inverting feature, like CJ.

Nevertheless people like them.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/vac ... -amplifier

The point to point wiring is trotted out in all amps that are built in small batches where having a multilayer board made
would be more expensive. I’ve owned several boutique guitar amps with this touted as a feature. It’s nice for tinkerers, but not as consistent as a well designed and built multilayer board.

In any event, VAC has a following. But I applaud you on your choice to stick with Conrad Johnson.

[Big Dog RJ]

No doubt!
I've always been intrigued by VAC gear, and spoke to Kev back in the day... at that time he was designing their IQ series amps, where the bias or amperage is checked over a period of time. If any output tube is sick or feeling low, an LED lights up indicating which tube. Just change that tube and you're good to go!

I also listened to his top of the line 4 chassis assault Vac statement series, oh boy! What a ride driving a full
array of YG Acoustics Anat III's. Very very impressive but then over time I learnt that these VACs have complicated circuitry in them, basically extra stuff... and thus is not easy when servicing for overseas techies... according to a few techies I've been in touch with.

Funny you mentioned VAC & Prima Luna, my trusted tech currently has four of these amps on his work bench! They are in need of some serious parts caused through a lightning storm... oh well, why on earth power on the system during a lightning storm...?

So far for me, CJ has always delivered somehow, somewhere and for some time... and that some time is now well over 3 decades, so might as well just sit back and enjoy those fine tunes!
Cheers, RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

Funny you mentioned VAC & Prima Luna, my trusted tech currently has four of these amps on his work bench! They are in need of some serious parts caused through a lightning storm... oh well, why on earth power on the system during a lightning storm...?

They’re probably waiting for the same Chinese parts.

As for lightning, it can be unexpected … especially during Summer (your season, about to turn to Fall).

[bschott]

Any chance you took pictures of the inside showing the new components?

here's pics of the modded and upgraded pv11:

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[admin]

Very nice. I think the clean design of CJ makes these kinds of upgrades a lot easier. Great job!

[Big Dog RJ]

Nice one! Looks like things are in great ship shape shape!
Enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ

[Paul001]

I know all these machines, also excellent pv9 or pv9a. But if you really want the top you have to go on the preier two or premier three. This is my premier two upgraded to three, never tried better.
Carefully selected valves, polypropylene capacitors, skipped all selectors works only the volume (alps black beauty), fast diodes, mundorf mlytic

[Paul001]

having said that, among the three I would prefer a pv5 with updated capacitors and valuable valves.

[admin]

I think it's a hard/personal decision. It's certainly hard to compare when you put modifiers on it like "better with updated this/that component."

With all things being equal, I would go with the PV12A. It's a unit that was released in 1997 vs 1984 for the PV5 and 1988 for the PV8. The components are a decade younger in the PV12A. Also, once you start factoring big upgrades, the price for the unit really starts shifting dramatically as these older units are relatively inexpensive. A professional recap could cost more than the actual selling price of the unit.

No right or wrong answer, and I'm certainly biased as I was running a PV12AL for a long time.

[AnotherJohnson]

I would not buy any of these late 20th century units based on the idea that one is younger or older. They’re all OLD. They are all plagued by parts availability and serious aging issues.

I would only buy one of these based on emotional connection, knowing full well that the best “vintage” does not compete with the current SOTA except for its ability to invoke nostalgia.

With that in mind, like the poster above, I would choose a restored PV5 above the rest.

The PV5 created an incredible stir on its introduction. People even abandoned the SP3 in its favor. Reviewers bought them after reviews. Reviewers bought them after auditions. The PV5 was a phenomenon.

I loved mine. I had it from less than one year old until it was 25+ years old. It was glorious.

But … I’m not sad that it became unsupportable over time. As my PV5, PV8, and PV11 all showed their age, I was forced into the ET series. And it was so dramatically better to my ears, that I’ve never looked back.

Of course YMMV.

But in my view a PV5 vs PV12 would be an easy choice. Neither competes with SOTA. The PV5 has more of a legend.