PCC88s vs 6922s

[AnotherJohnson]

When I bought my ET3SE several years ago, it came from the factory with a Philips PCC88 installed.

It sounded great ... but after a few hundred hours, one channel began to exhibit a heightened noise floor.

I replaced the ECC88 with an ElectroHarmonix 6922 that I had bought from CJ, and it was perfect again. I saved the PCC88 on my desk.

Last night as I was listening to an album from the analog tape era, I thought I was listening to tape hiss, which is unusual in my system these days. The Etna typically minimizes this sort of distraction.

I did some exploring and it was much stronger in the right channel than in the left. Tests showed that it was present with all sources, not just the vinyl or that old album.

Today I pulled the cover on the ET7S2 and found another Philips PCC88.

I happened to have another Electro-Harmonix 6922 from CJ. I swapped out the PCC88, installed the 6922, and everything was perfect again for all sources.

So ... has anyone else noticed the relatively short life of the PCC88s?

I doubt that I got even 200 hours out of this one.

Just as a precautionary measure, I’ve restocked my audio system tube supplies today. In the USA we are on the verge of trade wars with Russia, the country of origin for virtually all of our tubes. I thought it would be prudent to put in a new stock of replacements against the day when they might be harder to get.

Right now there are no problems with supply, but those in the USA know how scarce things can get when supply chains are undermined.

I’m not hoarding... but I do want to have what’s needed to keep my system in tip top condition.

No other tubes in my systems are showing signs of aging, but I’d rather be safe than sorry.

My CJ gear requires 16 KT120s, 9 6922s and 4 12AX7s. It was a large order, and not cheap since I go for the highest grade of balanced, low noise, low microphonics tubes. The order is sort of an insurance policy. I do the same with the tubes for my guitar amps.

[Big Dog RJ]

Funny you mentioned this AJ,

Just last night I had "another one bites the dust" moment.
Since my last post somewhere under tubes... I've had repeated failures of those E88CC's / also known as 6922 tubes. Anyway, I replaced another Genalex Gold Lion 6922, which was ordered from CJ. All the previous ones were ordered from other sources, including CJ but I kept one new set of Gold Lions.

The usual white flashes happened, tube going haywire but this time stopped after a few seconds of power on... then it sort of returned to normal but I didn't want to take a chance, especially half way through a listening session, so I replaced the tube immediately!
Now I've used up all my good ones /new spare sets. I'll have to re-order two more sets just in case...

Speaking of re-ordering replacement tubes, there's still one pair that is still going strong, which came with the monoblocks as original tubes. These are the Sovteks and EH tubes. So they're different brands, one of each kind but no issues whatsoever! So now I'm a bit confused of what to order.

1. Should I order the Genalex Gold Lion E88CC/6922 (gold pin) tubes once again- known for their superb sonics but unreliable performance...

2. Just stick with the standard EH 6922 (gold pin) version, good quality sound and very reliable.

3. Order the Sovtek standard 6922 version, (no gold pins), matched for low noise, low microphonics and ordered in matched pairs, very reliable and seem to last forever!

I must say, although I absolutely love the sound of the Genalex Gold Lions, they've been utterly disappointing in terms of reliability.

At this stage, I would probably just stick with either the EH or Sovtek standards, and I would probably recommend that to you as well.

Any further thoughts or suggestions?

Cheers, RJ

[roberto]

Hola RJ,

You have enough experience with tubes. You do know that they are very temperamental as we are. Gold Lion Genalex is my choice by now. Highly recommended!

Happy listening!

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes, Robbo I know, and you're absolutely right!

The Genalex are superb, no doubt!

However, lately since just last year, and I've mentioned this in several posts, I'm beginning to get annoyed with this reliability factor... I'm just not sure any more.

AJ is referring to the ecc88 vs the 6922... in my view it's actually labelled as e88cc which is the 6922 equivalent. Same identical tube, no differences only in the brands.

CJ is now using the Phillips 7DJ8 in their ET7 series preamps and the GATS2 as well. Although I was told this can be used in conjunction or as a direct replacement for either the e88cc or 6922, which is fine I guess, I'm still a bit hesitant to re-order another set of Genalex Gold Lions.

I'll probably just get one more set of GGL's and another set of Sovteks just to compare. Afterall, the GGL's are NOS tubes, and although they do sound awfully good, at the same time they're awfully unreliable, in my opinion.

I just need time to think this one out...

AJ, what are your thoughts about this tube, and any further feedback/ findings from any of your sources?

Cheers, RJ

[roberto]

Right on regarding the 7DJ8. You can use this tube with no problems as a direct replacement for the 6922.

Happy listening my friend!

[AnotherJohnson]

I went back to look at the tubes to see the name stamped on the glass. It must have been too dark for my old eyes to get it right at first.

The two failed tubes are both marked Philips PCC88.

[AnotherJohnson]

FWIW, I am not a tube roller. I have a certain expectation of what my CJ gear should sound like, and if that’s achieved, I forget about tubes until my expectations are no longer being met. The other night when I heard that unbalanced increase in the noise floor, I remembered the ET3SE experience and went straight to the ET7s2 to change the tube.

I like the EH 6922s. They sound great in my system, they are economical, and they are reliable. It’s another case where there may be something else out there that’s better, but the best is the enemy of the good, and I’d rather listen to music than experiment with tubes.

[AnotherJohnson]

I lived happily with all my PV series preamps, only changing tubes as degradation was noticed. Tubes in preamps can last a very long time. No need to be anxious about them if they sound good.

Upscale Audio has some excellent FAQs and videos on tubes. I recommend their web site for folks who want an education from a very entertaining and knowledgeable source (Kevin Deal). https://upscaleaudio.com/pages/tube-bas ... -questions

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes, Kevin D speaks well from a vast bank of experience and knowledge, running Upscale Audio.

The only thing is, when you're located down unda, and I mean really down under... the tube suppliers we used to have are diminishing. So we have to rely on two primary sources:
1. Ordering on-line, from known suppliers- (Tube Depot, Tube Store, Watford in the UK and Upscale). Problem with Upscale is they don't ship directly to overseas customers, rather they ship to a US based address, which is inturn rerouted to our Aus address. Talk about a detour!

2. Ordering directly from CJ, based on the advice given by JF.

I have engaged in both options, and lately didn't have much success / reliability from option 1. So I've decided not to go that route.
Regarding option 2, I used to have great success / reliability in the past, dating back to 89... sadly this is not the case with these NOS tubes from Genalex, mostly being driver / phase inverter tubes, those expensive NOS Mullards for the input gain stage.

Although these two brands, Genalex and Mullard, sound outstanding! Bssed on my experiences of lately and the number of failures happening in such a short span, tubes lasting a few months not even a year, and the system is used only twice a week on average... this is an unacceptable failure rate based on this boutique highend category.

Therefore, I will be sticking with what I've used in the past, and currently using in my CT5, which are the Sovteks. The Tungsol KT120 output tubes are mighty fine, no issues there. It's the little buggers that are causing me grief, which wasn't an issue in the past. These small signal tubes used to last forever, well over 5-6 years. Less than a year...
seriously?

Until I find a reliable supplier, perhaps then I'll switch back to Genalex and Mullards but for now I think I'll just stick with EH and Sovtek.

This is my personal choice based on my own experience, since 2019, and I've posted many comments on this topic. However, if others feel they should order their brands otherwise... that's fine! As long as you're getting your money's worth.

Cheers, RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

Until I find a reliable supplier, perhaps then I'll switch back to Genalex and Mullards but for now I think I'll just stick with EH and Sovtek.

Sovtek and EH have been reliable performers for me too. And they’re fairly priced as a rule.

[roberto]

Hola Chicos,

Well, I have being doing some tube rolling for the 6922. I got from JF a Genalex E88CC gold pins, and that's the one that I am using now. Before I had the Philips, and it became noisy. Three tubes in about 14 months, that makes about every four months I got them bad. The sound is very nice and well balanced with a harmonic texture that is really very difficult to achieve. But the tube fails a lot.

The Genalex E88CC gold pins is sounding great with a very good noise floor. I have a 2 channel TEAC M826 dB meter, and I got -106dB the left channel and -107.4dB the right channel. The overall quality is very good. The midrange is very detailed with tons of resolution. I am not missing the Philips tube.

I had another equivalents and substitutes for the 6922, but they are noisy if you do a comparison to the Genalex gold pins E88CC. Genalex makes E88CC without the gold pins. For our audio purpose, the gold pins are the ones. Highly recommended!

Happy listening!

[AnotherJohnson]

It is interesting to me to see that others have also experienced this issue.

I have used many of the suppliers that RJ suggests. I have to say that these PCC88s are the only new tubes that I’ve owned with such short life. EH, Sovtek, Tungsol have all been very long lived. I do order balanced triodes, with the best noise and microphonics.

[Big Dog RJ]

20200716_050255.jpg (3.24 MiB) Viewed 8632 times

Here it is Robbo mate,

The Genalex Gold pin Lions- E88CC tube in all its glory!
The other gold covered thing right next to it, is what I like best! The only problem with this is it doesn't play tunes, rather fine Swiss chocolate to go with your favourite tunes!

Cheers mate, RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

[Big Dog RJ]

I think I made a huge mistake there... Ferrero Rocher is infact Italian and not Swiss, uh oh!
I should have known this, since our store sells both FR and the finest Lindt chockies money can buy...

Cheers to all, and whiles enjoying those tunes do also enjoy a fine choc!
RJ

Sorry, had to edit again... spelt FR incorrectly.
I think I'll just have another one!

[AnotherJohnson]

They are delicious! No doubt! No problem auditioning them here. Except for the figure.

[AnotherJohnson]

Thinking about this tube and that tube, it seems to me that we fall in love with the defects in many tubes. This why CJ, AR, Mac and others say “we know of no tubes that are better than what we sell.”

If a tube has a propensity to be more liquid, or more dynamic, or more forward, or presents more presence, etc., is it better? Is it realistic? Or is it out of spec in a good way?

[Big Dog RJ]

So, I spoke with my trusted CJ importer the other week. Told him about the Genalex failures and we exchanged a few notes. According to him two basic points:

1. With that particular tube - Genalex Gold Lion E88CC/ 6922 he's had no issues with them whatsoever. Very reliable in the LP275M'S, LP140M'S and the Classic power amplifiers being in the main demo rooms over the years.

2. This particular tube is exactly what JF recommends! According to JF, the gold pin Genalex is a class above the rest... great ! I already knew that, so now what?

Ok, so just for now one more round, I'll give it one more try and I placed an order for two sets of the Genalex. So here we go again! Hopefully, they arrive tomorrow and should have it fired up soon. I'll probably just keep as a backup for now since these last pair of Genalex Gold Lions are still burning smoothly... or shall I say they're looking cool.

Cheers RJ
Forgot to attach the pics...

[admin]

Those look great RJ, let us know how the new tubes peform.

[Big Dog RJ]

The tooobs are in maties, and all is well so far.
As expected the finesse and control of the Genalex Gold Lions rule! Soundwise/performance these top it, in a class of their own just as our trusted good mate Mr JF recommends.

Now the question is how long will these last...

In the meantime I've also ordered a set of EH 6922's just as spares, since I couldn't close on the Sovteks. Apparently no one has the Sovteks in a 6922 version. Looked through the usual supplier's stock whom I deal with, none of them have any. So my quest continues... but for now I'll use the GGL's guess I'll have to replace when the time comes. Who knows!

It's a marvellous sound from these beauties, extremely well balanced and now I can understand why our other good mate, Robby prefers the GGL's. Very very nice.

Big woof! RJ