New Member

[Soro86]

Came across this excellent site. I am a CJ fan since 1988. I started out with a PV12 and MF2500. A Premier 14 led to a Premier 16 LS2 which has served me for 12 years. I had Classe CAM 350's but decided to dive into tube amps. I took a shot in the dark with a pair of used VTL MB250's which have been amazing these past 12 years.
I have had Martin Logan SL3's since 1998 but am currently breaking in my new ESL 11A's with 10 hrs on them.
Associated equipment Theta Miles CD player, Rega P25 w/ Soundsmith Carmen , MIT Shotgun IC and speaker cables

Cheers

[admin]

First, welcome to the site. Great to have you with us.

I'm still rocking a PV12 in my system and I love it. The ML 11a's sound great. I did a lengthy demo of them last year and was really impressed with their sound. I used to have ML Vantages in my system and really loved it. They played so well with my CJ gear. We have a lengthy "martin logan" thread going on here on CJO so you may want to check that out.

Again, welcome to the site.

[AnotherJohnson]

Welcome to the site! Very friendly group here. Lots of Martin Logan fans too.

[Soro86]

Thanks for the welcome and look forward to exploring the wealth of information and experience here.

[Big Dog RJ]

G'day Soro,

Welcome aboard to the elite world of musicality!

So if I'm correct, now you're currently using the premier 16LS partnered with the VTL monoblocks, driving the ML ESL 11A, correct?

Very nice combination indeed! Just a small question for reference purposes, what's are the dimensions of your room?
What's the distance from back wall to panels, listening position and distance behind your listening seat?

Cheers, RJ

[Soro86]

Hi RJ,

The room is 16 x 26. I will attach some pics. Excuse the messy room. This is with the SL3's.

I think the secret sauce for me is 250 watts dedicated triode to make ML's do their thing. Thoroughly satisfied with them.

I will be curious to hear members experience with the CJ monos with ML's.

[admin]

Really cool room. So I have to ask, does the asymmetry with the slanting ceiling give you acoustic problems with the 11a's? Have you considered using ARC as I know the 11a's are ARC capable?

[Soro86]

Thanks! It's been a wonderful space for many years. I had done a basic consult with Rives Audio and he had the speakers against the long wall opposite the sofa. That just did not work. They need the space behind them. I don't think the slant has affected the sound for me. I believe the directional nature of the stats helps. I had sound absorbing panels behind the speakers but took them down.
My plan is to get at least 120 hours on the speakers, experiment with placement, then try out the ARC. There seems to be prodigious bass with the 11A compared to the SL3 and very easily adjustable to taste. Be interesting to see what ARC adds.

[AnotherJohnson]

I think the slant may actually help. It makes room modes associated with height diffuse.

Egan, in his book on concepts in architectural acoustic, might have recommended that the speakers go in the shallow end, but proof is in listening.

Two of my rooms are irregular, and I think it is a plus.

[Big Dog RJ]

Nice one Soro!

I can tell you're enjoying it by the pics, great stuff mate!
You've got the positioning well sorted out. That added space behind the panels is extremely important, especially when these stat panels are capable of an awesome disappearing act, leaving nothing but the soundstage in its full glory, is just superb!

Partnered with the VTL's and CJ's 16LS, will be a mighty fine combination. Those SL3's still look fabulous! I had the Walnut version, and later on the Cherry red colour on CLSIIz stats. When these stats are placed in optimally, only then do they deliver their magic. Until that's done, the true performance of these beauties are only half way there...

Agreed on the Triode config on the VTL's, also that would still be ample power to fully control these stats. Your ESL 11A's will give you more detail, resolution, greater in-depth definition across the soundstage and most of all far greater transparency. Just make sure you use some top quality power cords for the 11A's, every nuance counts and makes a very positive difference in the overall presentation. You'll notice it straight away.

Cheers mate, have a good one!
RJ

[roberto]

Hey Soro, welcome!

You have a very nice system. And also I can see that you play guitar. I have at the Off-Topic section of the Forum, Roberto's friends... a cover of a Santana's song Flor de Luna. I would be honored with your visit and tell us what do you think.

Happy listening!

[bart42]

I use a CJ amp and and preamp (Gat (1st generation) and Premier 140) to drive a pair of B&W 800 D's (about 15 years old). Marantz TT turntable through a BellariVP129 phono preamp, a Cary CD bwith an M2Tech DAC. Siltech silver interconnects fom Cd to preamp to amp to spkrs. The GAT replaced an earlier CJ preamp and made a big improvement.

The tubes on the premier 140 have failed. My local hi-fi shop (Spearit Sound (I bought there and nowhere else since 1999)) closed (happy retirement). They supplied me with a set of Russian tubes for the first replacement. Replacement tubes from CJ will run around $1,000. Can anyone recommend any alternatives? My inclination is to save my pennies and buy from CJ. Also, CJ offers an upgrade/rebuild (mainly better transistors as I understand it) for the premier 140. Any experience with this upgrade?

enough.
Thank you for your attention.
I'm looking forward to learning from your experience.

Bart

[Big Dog RJ]

G'day Bart,

Greetings from down unda.

Came your post regarding the Prem 140. Superb preamp btw, the GAT will match very nicely with the Prem140, that's a fine SOTA combination!

Regarding tube failure on the Prem140... I'm thinking it's not "failures" rather just weak tubes that require replacement? Possibly due to the number of years it has clocked...

Anyway, if it's only the output tubes, they definitely don't cost that much. Depending on which type of output tubes your Prem140 has:
6550C SED
EL34 Mullards
KT88
KT120 Tung Sol
KT90 EI

So which type of output tubes are used on your Prem140?

These are offered by various tube suppliers and very reliable ones: Tube Depot, The Tube Store, Upscale Audio, and Watford tubes in the UK. I've purchased from all these providers and their service is great. They know what they're doing and will try to source the best tubes for the given price.

Speaking of price, all these suppliers offer different pricing, along with extras, such as tube matching, low noise, low microphonics and balanced measurements. They also charge differently for shipping and handling. You can choose from standard shipping options to FedEx or DHL courier services, and will charge you extra. So it all depends on your budget.

Also referring to CJ's tube replacement cost quoted to you for around a grand ($1,000), that seems excessive. Is this cost just for tube replacement or the full SE upgrade including labor charges, which I doubt. You didn't quite specify what the $1,000 was going to cover...

The upgrade CJ is referring to is the SE - "special edition" upgrade. This involves upgrading the capacitors to Teflons, they will also upgrade a few resistors to the top tier Vishays or Metal Foil resistors, and finally upgrade the output tubes to either KT120's or a tube of your preference. This particular upgrade kit is done by CJ and if you live outside the US, like me then they will send your CJ importer or dealer this particular upgrade kit that is meant for your particular power amplifier.

The full SE upgrade is fairly pricey but well worth the investment and the overall performance goes up another level. That SE upgrade could well be a grand, is what I'm thinking and in certain cases sometimes more depending on how many capacitors they actually upgrade, taking the performance level even further.

There are no transistors being upgraded here, only tubes.

You can certainly do this particular upgrade with CJ, where they charge you for the SE upgrade parts, and to source the tubes yourself from either of these suppliers, saving quite a bit. CJ charges a premium for tube matching and replacements, that's just the way CJ operates and it is also having peace of mind, knowing that you're in capable hands. However, this is very beneficial for those folks who live on a hill close to CJ's headquarters...

Whereas, for others such as us overseas folks, have to rely on reputed tube suppliers and have some knowledge on doing tube replacements and bias adjustments. It's really not that hard to learn, just need to be sober and patient...

Just check with CJ once again what does the $1000 cover, and if any SE version upgrades are included. Is this charge just for output tubes or a full tube replacement set?

You can also upgrade your GAT to the series 2, which will be far more costly compared to upgrading the power amp. Then again worth the investment if & when you're ready ...

The only issue with these special upgrades is that once they're done, you'll be quite amazed at the improvements in sound that you'll start thinking of upgrading other gear, such as cables, interconnects, even your speakers, and the vicious cycle begins!

Not that I'm discouraging you from it but once these upgrades are done, be ready for more simply because it doesn't end with just one component. It's highly addictive and just marvellous!

Cheers, and let us know how it all goes.
Best, RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

The GAT to GAT2 upgrade is $4500 according my discussions with the factory last week. Seems reasonable considering what’s done.

They confirmed that all parts are available for this upgrade at this time.