CAV-45 Series 1 or 2

[jahatl513]

Hi all,
I've dabbled with the idea of taking on a CAV-45 for fun.The fun part is hearing the difference in EL-34 from CJ.
Technically, I wonder about Series 1 vs 2? I wonder is there a visual difference as in, Is the badge on the rear of the unit indicating Series2? Does one have a larger Trans than the other; what are the differences?
Thanks in advance.

[AnotherJohnson]

I have not looked at the back of a CAV45.

But on other CJ units, the version is always clearly marked on the rear model identification plate. There is probably no difference on the front.

When things start as one thing and are upgraded at the factory, there may be a second identification plate.

If it is not the original CAV 45, I don’t think you’ll be misled.

[Big Dog RJ]

The main differences in the CAV45 S1 & S2 are as follows:

The Cav45 is basically a Cav45!

Upgrades in S2 are:
1. Its power supplies have been improved to generate more current. This includes trannys, caps etc.

2. The output terminals are upgraded to the premier standard that CJ uses. In the S1 the terminals are still very good but have a plastic coating on them, saving the extra highgrade gold plated locking collars to plastic gauge. The main terminals are still gold plated but not the collars.

3. The mains transformer is slightly bigger.

The badges are always located on the rear of the unit, stamped in plating next to the serial numbers of the amplifier. It's clearly marked which version it is. By looking at them side by side it's a bit difficult to distinguish but when you pick up the S2, the added weight is noticeable.

Both are marvelous amplifiers with the EL34 tubes operating at their finest! The S2 version just has more grunt, outstanding on my previous ML Ethos speakers, gripped the stats really well and drove the low frequency with respectable authority. I'm not 100% sure but I do believe that the S2 version also incorporates Teflon caps and top grade resistors, similar to CJ's SE version in power amplifiers.

Between the two, although both are remarkably musical and reproduce an extraordinary level of detail, the most noticeable aspect of the S2 is the solidness in the bass, just has more thump! Apart from that, the rest of the frequencies are about equal in overall performance.

One of favorite amplifiers of all time. It's such a pleasure to listen to and with the right load, there's nothing more required!

The only downside I experienced is due to its passive level control, there's no added gain like that of a linestage preamp. Hence, on vinyl playback the output is quite low, unless you were using a very high gain phono-preamp or higher output cartridge. On digital playback this passive control is fine, provided your speakers are fairly high efficiency.

Cheers, RJ

[roberto]

Hola,

The sound of the V2 is more organic. It is more revealing and more pleasant to the ears. There are more dynamics, and also the noise floor is improved. I do believe that the V2 is much better.

Happy listening!

[jahatl513]

Thanks guys, that is what I forgot; passive line stage. And I’d want to use it with vinyl so man oh man that just sucks.
Have any of you compared other CJ EL-34 amps to CAV? MV-60, etc?

[Big Dog RJ]

Hey Jahat,

There's no comparison to the CAV45 vs a dedicated power amplifier, just a completely different league mate.

The Cav45 is a control amplifier, which is basically integrated but without any active gain stage in the preamp section. So basically there's no preamp! It's just a level control and the selector switch / dial is for selecting your inputs, which comprises of only three.

It's a very simple minimalist design, fitted with EL34's, one driver / phase inverter tube doing the job for both channels, which is a 6922, plus two rare 5965's. These are related to the 12A series tubes but CJ uses a rare hard to find 12AT7 or something series, I can't remember the exact type. This input voltage tube is very quiet and has a low gain, hence the low noise. This is the main culprit that I found does not suit vinyl playback.

When I had one of these tubes fail, I ventured far and wide over the hills to find one but no supplier had these other than CJ of course. CJ purposely used this tube in order to deliver a very pure and low gain signal to the driver stage, which in turn is directly coupled to the output stage. This basically maintains the overall gain stage to just one.

The sound and clarity, specially the resolution is superb! However, as I said before on vinyl playback it's a bit difficult to reach realistic levels unless your phonostage is a higher gain version, I would say somewhere above 65dB to 70dB would be great or perhaps over 70dB better still. That's how low gain this amplifier is.

Now if you are to compare the MV60/SE, LP66s, LP70s, Classic 60/SE, Classic 62/SE... These are dedicated power amplifiers, they're designed somewhat different, perhaps sharing the same base circuit but the power supplies, transformers, caps, resistors and so on are completely different. Much higher grade, Teflons, Vishays, and those upgrades, with the help of much larger transformers the current capabilities of these power amplifiers are much higher, so it's a bit unfair to compare any of them with a Cav45. Not in the same category mate.

Hope that helps, cheers
RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

There is a CAV45s2 on eBay right now. It closes early tomorrow morning. There are no bidders and it is sitting at $1499.

If I wanted one, I’d jump on this.

[AnotherJohnson]

There were maybe 3 bidders and end of auction sniping took it up by less than $200. So this might have been the deal of the century.

[roberto]

Thanks guys, that is what I forgot; passive line stage. And I’d want to use it with vinyl so man oh man that just sucks.
Have any of you compared other CJ EL-34 amps to CAV? MV-60, etc?

If you want to play LPs, then just get a phono preamp, MM and MC for line stage. There are many options and not over $200.00 for good match to your MC cartridge. As an example pro- ject:

https://www.amazon.com/Pro-Ject-Audio-p ... 1DFQ7TWM1K

Happy listening!

[smodtactical]

There were maybe 3 bidders and end of auction sniping took it up by less than $200. So this might have been the deal of the century.

Sorry I know this is old but dang that was a sweet deal. Theres a series 1 now on audiogon for over $2300

I kinda want to try to hook up headphones to the speaker taps and see what happens.