An upgrade in pre-amplification or not...

[Big Dog RJ]

G'day Maties, greetings from down unda...

I've been enjoying my time with the CLX's and the monoblocks for quite a while now and couldn't be happier, until.. I received a call from my trusted CJ mate, who happens to have a pair of beautiful LP275's and a CT5 preamp. I'm not keen on the LP275's at all, since the LP125's are more than anything I would ever require to drive the CLX's. However, I'm keen on the CT5.

I have a few questions for the experts:
1. I know for a fact that the CT5 uses the same tubes a the ACT2, which I previously had but was very erratic behavior and far too much hiss on those notorious 6N30P's...
Question: would the CT5 be any better?

2. Should I focus more on the ET7 or ET5?

3. Am I wasting my time with all of this and just stick to the PV15? (which I've been enjoying a great deal, plus superb musicality from those M8080's and most of all zero hiss!) also highly recommended by the wifey!

I've tried out a few preamps these past few months, and did like the "new " sound of the ET series, such that more of the music flows through, unhindered, uncolored, clearer and with a great sense of control on the monoblocks, especially the heft and impact on low bass.
I really enjoyed my time with the ET7 & ET5 but not so much with the ET3/SE. Although very fine preamps, they did not give me the overall musicality presentation of the PV15.

I'm not sure what it is but when those tunes come out of those twin Mullards, it is just marvelous! I guess I'm old fashioned, not used to the newer sound of the ET series.

Another factor to consider is the fact that those 6n30p tubes are no longer in production. CJ has taken over the full stock, therefore these tubes can only be ordered directly through CJ and no where else. I remember sometime back, Lamm was using the very same tube in their driver stages as well but they wouldn't sell to people who didn't own Lamm gear, I guess they wanted a loyal customer base...

What's the best advice here? I'm not keen on a GAT either since I don't want to divulge into that kind of spend. I believe once you're in that category, the law of diminishing returns comes in to play.

If I was to stretch it, that would be the ET5 or 7. The CT5 is acceptable in my expenditure, and I can certainly understand the concept of its design, having replaced the ACT2. But I'm not sure at this stage how much of an improvement in performance it would deliver, perhaps around 10-15% ..if at all?

What should I aim for?
Cheers, RJ

[roberto]

Hola RJ, the ET-5 is a fantastic preamplifier, and very close to the top of the C-J pre amp the Gat s2...the ET-7 is more organic. It has more stage presentation, and very close to the GAT...let your ears decide.´

Happy listening!

[ajf75]

RJ, afraid i dont have legit advice here, but i can share my CT5 experience as a replacement for an ARC LS15 (that used 6922 tubes and that I did much tube rolling with).

My system was on the warm side prior to the CT5 and its addition did shift that slightly, and I'll say that there was a 'bite' to it with less kind music that caused me to try the NOS DR tubes and that solved the issue. With that fix my system was recognizable as the one I had evolved and fine tuned over the years in its characteristics (good), but with noticeably more inner info available, and with a deeper, taller, wider soundstage. In fact it revealed a problem in my room. My speakers are not symmetrically spaced from left and right walls but nothing i heard previously told me it was a problem until the CT5 grew the stage further outside of the speaker one side than the other.

Now, regarding the end of production for 6n30p's...Is this a fact?! Are you making a distinction from 6H30 variety as seem to be currently avail under Sovtek and EH labels? One of the things i try not to think about much is my gear becoming unusable due to tube supply drying up. Seems i need to do some quick research here...

[Big Dog RJ]

Thanks for your sincere replies and recommendations.
I have confirmed the order on the CT5, after all it is an ACT2 in a slightly more affordable package and seems to be less on maintenance... Delivery is confirmed for next week or so, should have the unit in the system up and running soon.

Re. To the tubes / supply, I was told about the particular series of the 6N30P supply and stock being hogged by CJ and in order to place spares, only CJ can provide. The person who mentioned this to me was my very own CJ importer and long time mate since nearly two decades.

However, lately when I spoke to him just yesterday arvo, he mentioned supply was not an issue but still orders directly through CJ as they have plenty of stock. Therefore, no problem in supply long term...
Also mentioned CJ have implemented a few tweaks since the ACT2 design and upgrades. Now the CT5 has a ground board built in and is located under the chassis on the bottom, helps to resolve any grounding issues, including noticeable hiss. Not sure how exactly this works but he assured me that the unit has been opened up, fully checked and upgraded by CJ, plus this so called ground board has been installed in the CT5. Further added that CJ also provide a balanced triode topology especially for ACT2 & CT5 owners, can also request for low noise & microphonics matched tubes in pairs, a little extra is charged for this selection process.

I remember when I placed an order for some 6922 driver tubes for the monoblocks through Tube Depot, they did a identical selection process for the Genalex gold lion's, and I must say it was well worth it!

Is there a higher grade of 6N30P's I should consider?
Or are the ones from CJ just as good? My CJ importer/dealer mate certainly seems to think so.

If there's a better tube/brand, please do let me know, and from where I could place orders.
Once I receive the unit, I will post a proper review of the linestage and how it interacts with the monoblocks driving the CLX's. Should be a good one indeed.
Cheers, RJ

[ajf75]

Nice RJ, anxious to hear your opinion of the CT5 vs a more classic CJ pre.

And thanks for the supply update - good news. So to be clear, my understanding of the 6N30 tube situation is that the total population includes only three varieties as follows (and as far as I know no distinction is generally made btwn 6H and 6N types):

1.) Sovtek 6H30pi - this is the only one actually in current production.
2.) Electro Harmonix EH6H30pi (gold) - current production but this tube is right off the Sovtek line then pins are gold plated (maybe more steps there ?). Regardless of this minor difference, the price is also only modestly higher, and there are many who say the result is a notably warmer sound. I just ordered a set of these along with a Genelex Gold Lion driver to play with in my ARTsa.
3.) Reflektor 6H30p-DR. This is vintage/NOS (new old stock) only and are quite expensive when found at $200/ea and up. Seems to be lots of controversy here. Some citing big favorable changes, others none, or even worse. Part of the issue may be production dates (folklore is that you really only want pre 1991 production), and part may be that some of these tubes trading may have had much of their life used up despite seller's claims. I took the DR leap and for me they did provide a more relaxed/musical presentation in the CT5. Then again I was coming from a pre-amp with very warm NOS 6922's in play, so hard to say if it was only in direct comparison to that. With the DR's, the sound is very transparent and neutral to me, but not a source of system warmth/cozy feel. I'll be comparing my DR's to the EH's sometime this winter.

Lastly, I don't experience a ground hum issue (nor tube hiss for that matter) but are you saying that that particular CT5 had a ground scheme upgrade, or that CT5's all has that vs the ACT2 ground scheme?

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes that's correct AJ,

Those NOS tubes can be quite costly but that's the price we pay. Whenever I place orders via Tube Depot, I custom order them for balanced triodes, low noise and low microphonics, it makes a significant difference in overall sound quality.

I was told by CJ that the 6N is quite different to the 6H tube but that was when we had to place direct orders through CJ during our dealership... Now that's long gone so being a sole customer and loyal one to the Aus importer /distributor, I was told by the boss man it really doesn't matter, either one is compatible. However, he only orders the 6N series for the CT5 and ACT2.
Next time I speak with him I'll ask just to make sure.

The added ground plate is now on all CT5's. It was not installed in the ACT2 for some reason... But later on when CJ realised that certain customers had issues with their ACT2, CJ addressed this with the CT5. You could send across your ACT2 for such installations but of course CJ will charge for these upgrades. My ACT2 was upgraded to a few items, which was nearly close to a series 2. As soon as I got it back, I managed to sell it off onto a customer who is a collector of highend gear, and he absolutely loves it!

I do sometimes miss the brute force of the ACT2 and it's soft touch on even the most minute details in the recordings. At the same time, I do also enjoy the sheer musicality on the classic pre or the PV15 that I'm currently using. Hence, I'm putting down my hard earned money towards the CT5, once again to retain that Act2 performance in a more affordable range. I'm sure it will be worth every penny.

Cheers mate and have a good one, RJ

[ajf75]

Thanks for that additional info RJ. However, I must say that I'm now more confused than ever about these 6H tubes!

First, I don't see anyone selling 6N tubes other than listings for stating 6H30/6N30 (indicating equivalents, but actually appear to be 6H tubes). Maybe this is because CJ bought all the 'real' 6N tubes as you mentioned?

Second, while researching this, I came across this very surprising (to me) info suggesting that 6N6p tubes can be used in place of 6N30 with dramatic effect. I really hope further investigation indicates this to be true and safe for the CT5 and my ARTsa (though pretty certain we won't get CJ's blessing on it):

https://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=set&m=82007

Lastly, I'll just mention that I ordered my EH6H30's from Upscale audio who offer 3 tube grade levels wit top being 'ARC select' (suggesting that they have an arrangement with ARC to provide as OEM replacements). So I ordered a pair, but then was advised they only had these in cryo'd variety at moment. So I said Ok to that as well, despite that I don't like the idea of cryoing tubes (subjecting tube vacuum seal to such stress). Hopefully no sound qual change imparted that will affect my opinion of these EH(gold pinned) tubes.

[ajf75]

I 've got some more info on the tube topic, but will move to a new thread so as to not derail this one...

[Big Dog RJ]

Hey AJ,

No worries about de-railing... Might as, well discuss all things related, plus it adds to great insight when people add more topics into one... I find it far more engaging to respond than compared to just one topic.

Yes, this is exactly what I was referring to: the 6N30P "N" designation is the only one that CJ provides. Lamm audio is the other company offering this tube but they only offer to Lamm industry customers. Vladimir is a great chap, I've met him in person, very passionate about tubes. If not for CJ, this would have been my number one choice but their price is out of my league. The sound is absolutely beautiful and they use single ended connections not those silly balanced connections.

If you do come across some specs that are both fairly equivalent to each other in terms of 6N and 6H, please do let me know. As far as my trusted CJ importer is concerned, he only recommends the N type on the CT5 & ACT2, nothing else.

I guess it's a matter of personal preference.
Cheers and let me know how it goes.
Have a good one, RJ

[ajf75]

So here's what else I've found since above...

I spoke with TheTubeStore who I've used numerous times in the past, and who has many varieties of these tubes on hand. His opinion is that the 6N6P should not be considered a drop in replacement and he didn't have first hand experience to say much more. Not surprising at all. Btw, he also advised, seeming quite certain, that no distinction is made between the 6N30 and the 6H30 tube designation (specs or application).

However, the following thread includes direct feedback from the principal of BAT audio, Victor (who kinda started the use of 6H30 tube in Hi End audio) and he states that he doesn't believe trying 6N6P tubes in his BAT gear will harm the gear. Very Interesting:
https://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=tubes&m=212113

Some further reading:
http://lampizator.eu/UPGRADE/upgrade%20 ... 06H6P.html

[ajf75]

RJ, yes I really think I would like Lamm gear but unfortunately haven't had an opportunity for a serious listen, and as you mention there is a price barrier. But interesting to know that he also hording these tubes! Putting together the pieces on 6N30 tubes, I'm guessing this means older NOS Russian tubes actually stamped 6N30 - wonder if these would necessarily be Reflecktor brand. The pricey NOS 'DR' variety being just a high spec version of the Reflector tube.

[Big Dog RJ]

G'day Maties,

The CT5 arrived on Friday and I connected it up to the system, took a while was done by 2:30am. Powered up and listened till 4:30am. Went to work with a hangover... Got back Sat morning, started listening again from 2:30am to 5am just this morning.

To sum it up: "in a class of its own"

I was wondering whether my purchase would be justified according to my bench mark of 30-40%... It seems like the CT5 added to the system an overall 80% in performance, outstanding!

Apart from the added slam and heft in the mid-range and depth in the soundstage, the most significant improvement overall is the level of impact on tonality. It has the capability to come across with a thunderous slam and suddenly float like a whisper as a butterfly in a micro second. This type of power and speed seems supremely realistic through the CLX's, and the CT5 has that complete grip and full control over the monoblocks, it's simply marvelous!

My good CJ importer included brand new Sovtek tubes, and these were the 6H30i tubes, exactly the same type as the original 6N30P, so there is no difference between the two. For those using the CT5, you can use either.

Another major area of improvement I noticed after a while settling in, is the way the soundstage is separated from each performer. The spacial cues and 3 dimensional lines are so profound you can virtually get up and walk onto the stage where the performers are located. Uncanny detail!

All I can say is that this is it and will be my last and final component. I must make a close to this madness, otherwise I will be probably signing the divorce papers...
I really cannot think of anything else required to further improve from this point onwards. I also cannot flaw it in any way whatsoever, considering the price I paid and the value it provides, there is no comparison to any of the higher more expansive ET series preamps that I tried.

For some reason I happen to like the 6H30 tube over the 6922's musical character but that doesn't mean that the newer ET series are bad. They're superb preamps in every regard and they do come at a hefty price point.

If you are looking for that ACT2 slam with that legendary ART musicality, the CT5 delivers all that.
I also got the unit fully upgraded to the Teflon caps, Vishay resistors, computer grade film caps where dedicated and the dual high grade transformers. This thing is huge, the size of a power amp, and none of the preamps I had previously could offer the quality and performance level of the CT5, other than of course the ACT2 & ART.

Will try to get some pics across, until then thanks to all for the great advice, certainly learnt a lot there.
Cheers to all and a big woof!
RJ

[Big Dog RJ]

OK here goes with some pics...
The CT being unpacked and then in full swing!

[admin]

RJ, the setup looks amazing. Definitely one of the best equipment lists that I have ever seen. Love the CJ equipment and speakers. As I've said before, the CLX's are my holy grail speakers. Congrats and enjoy!

[Big Dog RJ]

Cheers Admin,

Yes, I've achieved this through some mad times... Lost jobs, been put out of business, had to sell off CJ gear at one point just to make ends meet. Then had to start all over again in 2015, that was the lowest point in my life. I held strong and together with the love and support of the "good wife" I managed to get through.

Then we secured our residency in Aus, which took an awful long time, over 13 years, and just two years ago things started to slowly pick up. At one point I thought I was not going to make it and I've let the family down... But persistence prevails!

Each component there in the system tells a story, one whete I landed a good job and bought something new to add on... The last major item were the CLX's, and that was it. I was extremely happy with the level of performance from the PV15 but then I received a call from my CJ buddy, and he had thought of me when the CT5 just happened to land on his doorstep!

It was shipped from Queensland and the moment I saw it, I closed the deal! Didn't even listen to it, rather got it sent back for the special edition upgrades and received it last week. Now that journey has come to a full end and I must be truthful to myself otherwise I will lose credibility with the wifey...

That's as far as it goes and I must be content with this.
Once again thanks for your great advise and all the support, it was certainly one of the best forums I've been on.
A very special cheers to the good wife! And most of all to CJ! And of course to our good mate Admin!
Cheers mate, RJ